Welcome to this week’s episode, a special rerun from our Speaking of Life archive. We hope you find its timeless message as meaningful today as it was when it was first shared.
Watch video on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1-DJVhrX_M
Program Transcript
Speaking of Life 5008 | More Than I Can Say
Greg Williams
Sonny Curtis and Jerry Allison wrote a song called “More Than I Can Say” back in 1959. And it went on to be performed by Leo Sayer, who rode the song to the top of the billboards back in the 80s.
The lyrics were simple and repetitive. Here are the opening lines:
I love you more than I can say
I’ll love you twice as much tomorrow
Oh, love you more than I can say
Set to a catchy tune, this song will get stuck in your head for days. In addition, we can all identify with the experience of loving someone or something “more than we can say.”
Or, maybe it’s more than that. Perhaps this little ditty resonates with us at a far deeper level.
After all, praising comes quite easy for us does it not? Have you ever been startled by a streaking star shooting through the night sky that made you shout, “Wow! Look at that”? Or maybe the sighting of that rare double rainbow after a storm that turns everyone’s attention skyward with utterances of “oohs” and “ahhs.” It seems praise comes naturally when we are encountered with something amazing or beautiful.
“More Than I Can Say” may have been written back in 1959 but this is not the first time a songwriter has attempted to praise someone beyond words. Look at this lyric in Psalm 40 which is a thanksgiving Psalm:
You have multiplied, O Lord my God, your wondrous deeds and your thoughts toward us; none can compare with you!
I will proclaim and tell of them, yet they are more than can be told.
Psalm 40:5 (ESV)
When we come to know God for who he truly is, we too will be compelled to praise him “more than we can say.” That’s the blessed life we are created for. Praising God for all eternity means we are in the presence and in a relationship with One who is praiseworthy beyond words. We come to know this God only in Jesus Christ, who reveals this Father to us by the Spirit. The more we come to know our Triune God, the more our praise will naturally pour forth. And scripture indicates that this song of praise will get stuck in our heads for all eternity. After all, God is good…well…more than I can say.
I’m Greg Williams, Speaking of Life.
Program Transcript
Speaking of Life 5008 | More Than I Can Say
Greg Williams
Sonny Curtis and Jerry Allison wrote a song called “More Than I Can Say” back in 1959. And it went on to be performed by Leo Sayer, who rode the song to the top of the billboards back in the 80s.
The lyrics were simple and repetitive. Here are the opening lines:
I love you more than I can say
I’ll love you twice as much tomorrow
Oh, love you more than I can say
Set to a catchy tune, this song will get stuck in your head for days. In addition, we can all identify with the experience of loving someone or something “more than we can say.”
Or, maybe it’s more than that. Perhaps this little ditty resonates with us at a far deeper level.
After all, praising comes quite easy for us does it not? Have you ever been startled by a streaking star shooting through the night sky that made you shout, “Wow! Look at that”? Or maybe the sighting of that rare double rainbow after a storm that turns everyone’s attention skyward with utterances of “oohs” and “ahhs.” It seems praise comes naturally when we are encountered with something amazing or beautiful.
“More Than I Can Say” may have been written back in 1959 but this is not the first time a songwriter has attempted to praise someone beyond words. Look at this lyric in Psalm 40 which is a thanksgiving Psalm:
You have multiplied, O Lord my God, your wondrous deeds and your thoughts toward us; none can compare with you!
I will proclaim and tell of them, yet they are more than can be told.
Psalm 40:5 (ESV)
When we come to know God for who he truly is, we too will be compelled to praise him “more than we can say.” That’s the blessed life we are created for. Praising God for all eternity means we are in the presence and in a relationship with One who is praiseworthy beyond words. We come to know this God only in Jesus Christ, who reveals this Father to us by the Spirit. The more we come to know our Triune God, the more our praise will naturally pour forth. And scripture indicates that this song of praise will get stuck in our heads for all eternity. After all, God is good…well…more than I can say.
I’m Greg Williams, Speaking of Life.
Isaiah 9:1–4 • Psalm 27:1, 4–9 • I Cor. 1:10–18 • Matthew 4:12–23
This Sunday, we continue in the season after Epiphany, as Christ is revealed more clearly in word and deed. Our theme this week is united in Christ. The prophet Isaiah announces a word of hope. Those who walked in darkness have seen a great light. God breaks the yoke of oppression and brings joy to his people. The psalmist responds with confidence, declaring, “The Lord is my light and my salvation.” He expresses a deep longing to dwell in the presence of God. In his letter to the Corinthians, Paul pleads for unity among believers. He urges them to center their lives around the cross of Christ, not around personalities or divisions. In Matthew’s Gospel, Jesus begins his public ministry in Galilee. He brings light to a darkened land. He proclaims the kingdom of God and calls ordinary people to follow him. Together, these passages remind us that the light of Christ not only saves and heals but calls us into a new way of life. This life is marked by unity, purpose, and bold discipleship.
Reminder: This introductory paragraph is intended to show how the four RCL selections for this week are connected and to assist the preacher prepare the sermon. It is not intended to be included in the sermon.
How to use this sermon resource.
Unity, Not Uniformity
I Corinthians 1:10–18 NRSVUE
(Read or ask someone to read the passage.)
Now I appeal to you, brothers and sisters, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you be in agreement and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be knit together in the same mind and the same purpose. For it has been made clear to me by Chloe’s people that there are quarrels among you, my brothers and sisters. What I mean is that each of you says, “I belong to Paul,” or “I belong to Apollos,” or “I belong to Cephas,” or “I belong to Christ.” Has Christ been divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul? I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, so that no one can say that you were baptized in my name. I did baptize also the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I do not know whether I baptized anyone else. For Christ did not send me to baptize but to proclaim the gospel—and not with eloquent wisdom, so that the cross of Christ might not be emptied of its power. For the message about the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved, it is the power of God. I Corinthians 1:10–18 NRSVUE
Introduction: The Beauty of Difference
As we can see in our own families, every human being is unique. Siblings may share the same DNA, grow up in the same home, and learn the same family traditions. But we discover that each person carries a different personality, set of preferences, and even ways of expressing love. One person is cautious, another bold, one reflective, and another impulsive. It’s part of the beauty — and sometimes the frustration — of human life.
In this regard, the church is much the same. Within one congregation, we find people who are very different. We find differences in temperament, backgrounds, political opinions, and spiritual practices. Some love quiet contemplation; others find God most vividly in singing or service. Yet the same Lord draws all.
Now I appeal to you, brothers and sisters, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you be in agreement and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be knit together in the same mind and the same purpose. I Corinthians 1:10 NRSVUE
Paul’s letter to the Corinthians was written about 2,000 years ago. It shows that this diversity is nothing new. From the very beginning, followers of Jesus wrestled with how to live in community while united in Christ. The church at Corinth was full of gifted, intelligent, and passionate people. But their diversity had become a source of conflict rather than celebration.
Paul’s Pastoral Concern: A Church Divided
Paul writes, “For it has been made clear to me by Chloe’s people that there are quarrels among you” (verse 11). That one sentence tells us volumes. The Corinthian church, though young and energetic, was fragmenting into camps. People were identifying themselves by which teacher or leader they preferred. “I belong to Paul,” “I belong to Apollos,” “I belong to Cephas,” or even “I belong to Christ.” (verse 12)
At first glance, that last group sounds right — who wouldn’t want to belong to Christ? But Paul sees that even this claim has become a source of pride and competition. The name of Jesus unites us, and people were using his very name to divide.
Paul’s question slices through the nonsense: “Has Christ been divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?” (verse13)
It’s as if Paul is saying, “Stop acting like fans of competing teams. You’ve forgotten who the real center is.”
The Incarnation: God’s Response to Division
To understand why unity matters so deeply to Paul, we must look at the heart of the gospel — the Incarnation. In Jesus Christ, God did something astonishing: the infinite Creator took on human flesh. The eternal Word entered human history not to erase our differences but to redeem them.
When God became human in Jesus, he didn’t come as a generic person. He came as a first-century Jewish man, with a family, language, and culture. Yet through that particular human life, God opened the way for all humanity to be reconciled.
The Incarnation is God’s declaration that human life, in all its variety, is not something to be abolished. It’s something to be transformed. Jesus’ body — real, wounded, resurrected — is now the meeting point between heaven and earth.
And this is why unity in the church matters. The church is called the Body of Christ. If we are his body, we must reflect his nature. His body is made up of diverse members who are united in one life and animated by one Spirit. Our unity doesn’t mean sameness any more than the Incarnation meant Jesus stopped being divine. Rather, it means that different lives, different gifts, and different callings can coexist in harmony under one Lord.
The Trinity: Divine Unity in Diversity
Paul’s vision of unity also echoes something even deeper — the life of the triune God.
The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are distinct Persons, yet they exist in perfect love and harmony. The Father is not the Son; the Son is not the Spirit. But they share one essence, one will, one divine life. The Trinity is the original community — unity without uniformity, diversity without division, equality without duplication.
When we speak of Christian unity, we’re not just talking about good teamwork or organizational cooperation. We’re talking about how God is drawing us into his very life. Jesus prayed in John 17, “That they may all be one. As you, Father, are in me and I am in you …” (John 17:21 NRSVUE). The church’s unity is meant to mirror the divine unity — the self-giving love that flows eternally between Father, Son, and Spirit.
Paul urges the Corinthians to “be united in the same mind and the same purpose.” He is calling them not to suppress their differences, but to let the life of the triune God flow among them. We don’t create the unity, the oneness. We submit to it. We live into the unity that God created. God has made us one.
The Cross: The Shape of True Unity
Paul then pivots to the cross: “For the message about the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God” (verse 18).
Why bring up the cross here? Because the cross reveals the very pattern of divine unity. On the cross, Jesus did not assert his rights or demand recognition. He emptied himself — “being found in human form, he humbled himself and became obedient to the point of death — even death on a cross” (Philippians 2:8 NRSV).
That self-emptying love is the power of God. It is also the model for the church. Humility helps heal divisions. Are we willing to lay down our pride, our preferences, our need to be right, and to see Christ in one another?
Unity, then, is not a human achievement. It’s the fruit of the cross at work in us.
The Church as a Living Sign of Reconciliation
Paul reminds the Corinthians that baptism is not a badge of allegiance to a particular leader. It’s the sign that we have been immersed into Christ’s death and raised into his life. In baptism, the old divisions lose their power — Jew or Greek, slave or free, male or female — we are all one in Christ Jesus.
This means the church is not a club of single-minded people. It’s a new humanity being formed by the Spirit. When the world looks at the church, it should see a living sign of reconciliation. The world should see a community where people who would otherwise never associate with one another are bound together in love.
The tragedy is that too often the church mirrors the world’s divisions rather than God’s unity. We divide along lines of race, class, theology, or politics, forgetting that our witness to the world depends on our ability to love across those lines. Jesus proclaimed the one unifying factor: “By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another” (John 13:35 NRSVUE).
Unity, Not Uniformity
Let’s be clear: unity is not uniformity. Paul does not call the Corinthians to agree on everything. The goal is not to erase their personalities or force everyone into one mold. Rather, unity means we hold our differences within a shared commitment to Christ.
In the Body of Christ, the eye cannot say to the hand, “I have no need of you.” Each part has its purpose. When all the parts work together, the body grows and moves gracefully. But when one part competes against another, the body becomes paralyzed.
Our task is not to make everyone think the same way. Our task is to love one another deeply. Then our differences might become gifts rather than threats.
A congregation can welcome different generations, cultures, and worship styles. Doing so reflects the wideness of God’s kingdom. These are not distractions but demonstrations of the gospel’s breadth.
When we learn to appreciate each other’s differences, the world sees that God’s love can hold us together even when we are not identical.
Listening as an Act of Love
One of the most radical acts of love we can practice in the church is listening — really listening.
To listen well is to set aside our need to defend, explain, or persuade. It’s entering another’s experience with humility. It’s a way of saying, “You matter. Your story matters. God is at work in you, and I want to understand how.”
When church leaders, small group members, and friends learn to listen like this, we become agents of reconciliation. Listening becomes a spiritual discipline through which the Spirit knits us together.
The Role of the Holy Spirit
Unity is impossible apart from the Holy Spirit. Human efforts at harmony often collapse into compromise or control. But the Spirit is the bond of peace — the living presence of God that holds us together in love.
The Spirit does not erase our individuality. The Spirit sanctifies it, turning our differences into instruments of grace. Paul writes, “There are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit” (1 Corinthians 12:4 NRSVUE). Each person’s gift reveals a different facet of God’s character.
When the Spirit moves freely among us, unity becomes not a burden but a joy — a taste of heaven on earth.
The Missional Dimension: Unity for the Sake of the World
Unity is not just about getting along. It’s missional. Jesus’ prayer in John 17 makes this clear: “May they be one, so that the world may believe that you have sent me.”
The credibility of the Church is tied to her unity. Christians can love across boundaries, forgive, reconcile, and celebrate differences without fear. When others witness this, they glimpse the kingdom.
The Incarnation shows that God’s mission is always relational. The Father sends the Son; the Spirit empowers the Son. Together they invite us into that mission — to embody God’s love in a divided world.
When the church lives in trinitarian unity, we become a living preview of God’s future. We live the message of the gospel. The Church is a community where strangers become family and enemies become friends.
Practical Applications
-
- Celebrate diversity intentionally with humility and curiosity.
When disagreements arise, ask not “Who’s right?” but “What might God be teaching us through this difference?” - Listen more deeply.
As Paul says in Philippians 2, “Let each of you look not to your own interests, but to the interests of others.” Listening is one of the most Christlike things we can do. - Pray for the Spirit’s unity.
Unity is not something we manufacture; it’s something we receive. Ask the Spirit daily to soften your heart and expand your love. - Live the gospel missionally.
Remember that how we love one another is part of our witness. The world is polarized. So, a church that embodies unity-in-diversity proclaims the reality of the risen Christ. That’s more powerful than any argument.
- Celebrate diversity intentionally with humility and curiosity.
Conclusion: The Power of the Cross
Paul ends this section with a reminder that the wisdom of God often looks like foolishness to the world. The cross — an instrument of shame — became the means of salvation. The same is true of unity. The world values power, control, and winning arguments. But the kingdom of God values humility, love, service, and reconciliation.
So let us remember:
-
- Christ is not divided.
- The Spirit is not absent.
- The Father is still gathering his children into one family.
Unity is not about thinking alike. It’s about loving alike. We love God, the world, and one another. Unity is about reflecting the relational heart of the triune God who sent his Son into the world. Unity is not making everyone the same. Unity is Christ making all things new.
May we, the church of Jesus Christ, live as a sign of that divine unity. We are different, yet one; many voices, one song; diverse members, one body. We can proclaim together the good news of the crucified and risen Lord.
Go Deeper:
https://fulleryouthinstitute.org/articles/unity–uniformity
Brian Zahnd—Year A Epiphany 3
Listen to audio: https://cloud.gci.org/dl/GReverb/GR071-Zahnd-YearA-Epiphany3.mp3
Sunday, January 25, 2025 — Third Sunday after Epiphany
1 Corinthians 1:10-18 NRSVUE
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Program Transcript
Brian Zahnd—Year A Epiphany 3
Anthony: Alright. As we come and see our final pericope of the month, it is 1 Corinthians 1:10–18. It is the Revised Common Lectionary passage for the third Sunday after Epiphany, January 25. Brian, do the honors for us, please.
Brian: Yes.
Now I appeal to you, brothers and sisters, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you be in agreement and that there be no divisions among you but that you be knit together in the same mind and the same purpose. 11 For it has been made clear to me by Chloe’s people that there are quarrels among you, my brothers and sisters. 12 What I mean is that each of you says, “I belong to Paul,” or “I belong to Apollos,” or “I belong to Cephas,” or “I belong to Christ.” 13 Has Christ been divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul? 14 I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, 15 so that no one can say that you were baptized in my name. 16 I did baptize also the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I do not know whether I baptized anyone else. 17 For Christ did not send me to baptize but to proclaim the gospel—and not with eloquent wisdom, so that the cross of Christ might not be emptied of its power. 18 For the message about the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
Anthony: Amen and amen. These United States don’t feel so united these days.
Brian: No.
Anthony: And if the Church isn’t attentive, we just too easily embody, reflect everything that we see about us. What does it mean for the Church to, “be in agreement that there be no divisions among you?”
Brian: It means that we are truly willing to embrace anyone who confesses that Jesus Christ is Lord and has been baptized. I mean that our definition of Christian should not be more strict than that.
Now, you make a distinction between being Christian and being a Christian. Being Christian may mean actually the process of discipleship and becoming Christlike. But to be a Christian, the criteria is to make the basic confessions about who Christ is, Jesus is Lord, and all that’s presumed in that confession and baptism.
I am distressed when I see another criterion applied, especially that’s political. I can find plenty of people out there say,” You can’t be a Christian if you’re a Democrat.” “You can’t be a Christian if you’re a Republican.” And that is, in my mind, that is a grievous sin, and we cannot bring those kinds of political distinctions into the Body of Christ.
I would maybe, I don’t know … probably, I wouldn’t preach on this right now from that passage — I might — but I would stress the value and the beauty of an ecumenical spirit. You know what, you see that Corinth had these problems. In a perverse sort of way, I’ve gained some comfort from knowing that the Church has never had a golden age. The more you know about church history, you go, “We never had a golden age, did we?”
And yet the Church continues to be present in one way or another, seeks to be a witness to Christ. So, I do find some comfort in that, that if you say we’re going to go back to when it was the golden age, you’ll never find it because it never existed.
Anthony: The local church for me, Brian, is such a beautiful, messy mess. Think about it. A lot of the people that are brought together, you wouldn’t be friends with otherwise. Not that you’d be opposed to them.
Brian: That’s exactly right.
Anthony: But you wouldn’t have them in your house for dinner. And yet you’re worshiping the same God together. And it is, it’s a beautiful mess.
Brian: This is why I resist the idea of trying to reduce the Church to a circle of friends. Somebody will say, “Ah, I’m done with the Church. I get together with my friends, and we hang out and we drink wine and we talk about God.”
And I said, “No, that’s getting with your friends, drinking wine and talking about God.”
The beauty of the local church is that over time, I stand and have conversations in the church foyer on Sunday morning with people who, let’s just be honest, I probably would never hang out with, except that I’ve been called into this very interesting phenomenon called the ekklesia, called the Church, called the Body of Christ.
And I learned to care about people who I don’t necessarily share a whole lot of common interests with. What is common is our baptismal identity, and that turns out to be enough, and that is a unique phenomenon that belongs to the Church.
And Paul understood that immediately. He’s the best theologian and defender of that concept. You see how passionate he is about that. For example, in 1 Corinthians when they’re getting drunk — this will show up in the same letter later — they’re getting drunk at the Lord’s supper, which is, that’s just wild. You know what I’m saying? That’s just wild.
So, people are drunk. And that is not what upsets Paul. He might not be in favor of that, but that’s not really what he is upset about. What he’s upset about is that the class distinctions have been brought to the table of the Lord. So, what was happening is people would bring their own meal, and I’ve got my bottles of wine here, and I’m with my friends and we’re getting plastered.
And these people over here, they’re poor. And so they don’t even have anything. They’re hungry. They’re not drinking any wine. And what Paul is upset about, most of all, is not drunkenness at the Eucharist, but about the vision that belongs to the world being imported into the Church.
Anthony: Yeah, that’s so good. So, let me ask you this. I don’t want the Kansas City Chiefs to win the Super Bowl. Would I be welcome into your congregation, Brian?
Brian: You know what? I have served communion to people wearing Raiders gear.
Anthony: Oh my gosh.
Brian: I have had the Body of Christ broken for you and the dude’s wearing Raiders gear. I’m a committed Christian, Anthony.
Anthony: Oh, you are? You’ve drawn a big circle around the world and said you’re in. I like it. Friend, I’d be grateful for your exegesis of verse 18, and just read it again.
For the message about the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved, it is the power of God.
Brian: Yeah. This is what my most recent book that actually is available is about, Wood Between the Worlds. At least in part it’s about that. The cross is the antithesis to everything that the world thinks is wise and powerful. And so, the world as it is, the world of superpowers and super economies and militaries and all of that, think that what really matters is power, and might, wealth economy. And all of that is subverted at the cross of Christ, that in Christ, we discover a God who would rather die than kill his enemies, who says that we are not going to change the world by the sword, but by co-suffering love. And this temptation was presented to Jesus in the wilderness, that he was offered the capacity, the power to rule the world, to change the world. And the temptation for Christ would’ve been, you know what? Alexander the Great did it. Julius Caesar’s done it. I could do it, and I would do it for good. And I could overthrow Pontius Pilate. We could march on Rome, overthrow Tiberius, and I could establish by force, by the sword, by military might the kingdom of Jesus of Nazareth, except it wouldn’t change the world. It would just become the world.
When the Church reaches for the sword of political power. I know what the thinking is — we are going to use this for good and we’re going to change the world. No, you’re not going to change the world. You simply become the world.
The alternative to the world is the kingdom of Christ. And it is always cruciform in its posture and its emphasis and its language and how it relates to others. And so, this is foolishness to the world. So, if that strikes you as foolishness, well at least you know what is shaping how you think?
You have to believe in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ to embrace what Paul says about the cross as something other than foolishness. He says, “It’s the wisdom and power of God.” But until you can actually believe in resurrection, then it is going to remain foolishness.
Anthony: As we wrap up our time here, friends, I wanted to leave you with this message.
Barbara Brown Taylor said this, “I’d say that human beings never behave more badly toward one another than when they believe they are protecting God.” Our call is not to protect God. He doesn’t need our protection. We’re here to proclaim him as he’s revealed himself in the person and work of our Lord Jesus Christ, whom is revealed here in scripture.
Brian, I’m so grateful for you, so happy you could join us. Thank you so much. And I want to thank our team of people who make this possible. Michelle Hartman, Elizabeth Mullins, Reuel Enerio. What a great team. And as is our tradition here on Gospel Reverb, we close with a word of prayer. So, Brian, thank you. And would you lead us in prayer, please?
Brian: Thank you, Anthony.
Holy Father, I bring before you now all of us who are in one way or another participating in this podcast, hearing it, thinking about it. And my prayer is simply that the peace of Christ that passes understanding would guard all of our hearts and minds in Christ Jesus. There is so much in the world that presently can produce anxiety and anger and all of the things that swirl around that. I pray for the peace of Christ. I speak these words that come from St. Theresa of Avila. Let nothing disturb you. Let nothing frighten you. All things are passing away. God never changes. Patience, obtains all things. Whoever has God lacks nothing. God alone suffices. In the name of Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen and amen.
Anthony: Amen.
Program Transcript
Brian Zahnd—Year A Epiphany 3
Anthony: Alright. As we come and see our final pericope of the month, it is 1 Corinthians 1:10–18. It is the Revised Common Lectionary passage for the third Sunday after Epiphany, January 25. Brian, do the honors for us, please.
Brian: Yes.
Now I appeal to you, brothers and sisters, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you be in agreement and that there be no divisions among you but that you be knit together in the same mind and the same purpose. 11 For it has been made clear to me by Chloe’s people that there are quarrels among you, my brothers and sisters. 12 What I mean is that each of you says, “I belong to Paul,” or “I belong to Apollos,” or “I belong to Cephas,” or “I belong to Christ.” 13 Has Christ been divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul? 14 I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, 15 so that no one can say that you were baptized in my name. 16 I did baptize also the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I do not know whether I baptized anyone else. 17 For Christ did not send me to baptize but to proclaim the gospel—and not with eloquent wisdom, so that the cross of Christ might not be emptied of its power. 18 For the message about the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
Anthony: Amen and amen. These United States don’t feel so united these days.
Brian: No.
Anthony: And if the Church isn’t attentive, we just too easily embody, reflect everything that we see about us. What does it mean for the Church to, “be in agreement that there be no divisions among you?”
Brian: It means that we are truly willing to embrace anyone who confesses that Jesus Christ is Lord and has been baptized. I mean that our definition of Christian should not be more strict than that.
Now, you make a distinction between being Christian and being a Christian. Being Christian may mean actually the process of discipleship and becoming Christlike. But to be a Christian, the criteria is to make the basic confessions about who Christ is, Jesus is Lord, and all that’s presumed in that confession and baptism.
I am distressed when I see another criterion applied, especially that’s political. I can find plenty of people out there say,” You can’t be a Christian if you’re a Democrat.” “You can’t be a Christian if you’re a Republican.” And that is, in my mind, that is a grievous sin, and we cannot bring those kinds of political distinctions into the Body of Christ.
I would maybe, I don’t know … probably, I wouldn’t preach on this right now from that passage — I might — but I would stress the value and the beauty of an ecumenical spirit. You know what, you see that Corinth had these problems. In a perverse sort of way, I’ve gained some comfort from knowing that the Church has never had a golden age. The more you know about church history, you go, “We never had a golden age, did we?”
And yet the Church continues to be present in one way or another, seeks to be a witness to Christ. So, I do find some comfort in that, that if you say we’re going to go back to when it was the golden age, you’ll never find it because it never existed.
Anthony: The local church for me, Brian, is such a beautiful, messy mess. Think about it. A lot of the people that are brought together, you wouldn’t be friends with otherwise. Not that you’d be opposed to them.
Brian: That’s exactly right.
Anthony: But you wouldn’t have them in your house for dinner. And yet you’re worshiping the same God together. And it is, it’s a beautiful mess.
Brian: This is why I resist the idea of trying to reduce the Church to a circle of friends. Somebody will say, “Ah, I’m done with the Church. I get together with my friends, and we hang out and we drink wine and we talk about God.”
And I said, “No, that’s getting with your friends, drinking wine and talking about God.”
The beauty of the local church is that over time, I stand and have conversations in the church foyer on Sunday morning with people who, let’s just be honest, I probably would never hang out with, except that I’ve been called into this very interesting phenomenon called the ekklesia, called the Church, called the Body of Christ.
And I learned to care about people who I don’t necessarily share a whole lot of common interests with. What is common is our baptismal identity, and that turns out to be enough, and that is a unique phenomenon that belongs to the Church.
And Paul understood that immediately. He’s the best theologian and defender of that concept. You see how passionate he is about that. For example, in 1 Corinthians when they’re getting drunk — this will show up in the same letter later — they’re getting drunk at the Lord’s supper, which is, that’s just wild. You know what I’m saying? That’s just wild.
So, people are drunk. And that is not what upsets Paul. He might not be in favor of that, but that’s not really what he is upset about. What he’s upset about is that the class distinctions have been brought to the table of the Lord. So, what was happening is people would bring their own meal, and I’ve got my bottles of wine here, and I’m with my friends and we’re getting plastered.
And these people over here, they’re poor. And so they don’t even have anything. They’re hungry. They’re not drinking any wine. And what Paul is upset about, most of all, is not drunkenness at the Eucharist, but about the vision that belongs to the world being imported into the Church.
Anthony: Yeah, that’s so good. So, let me ask you this. I don’t want the Kansas City Chiefs to win the Super Bowl. Would I be welcome into your congregation, Brian?
Brian: You know what? I have served communion to people wearing Raiders gear.
Anthony: Oh my gosh.
Brian: I have had the Body of Christ broken for you and the dude’s wearing Raiders gear. I’m a committed Christian, Anthony.
Anthony: Oh, you are? You’ve drawn a big circle around the world and said you’re in. I like it. Friend, I’d be grateful for your exegesis of verse 18, and just read it again.
For the message about the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved, it is the power of God.
Brian: Yeah. This is what my most recent book that actually is available is about, Wood Between the Worlds. At least in part it’s about that. The cross is the antithesis to everything that the world thinks is wise and powerful. And so, the world as it is, the world of superpowers and super economies and militaries and all of that, think that what really matters is power, and might, wealth economy. And all of that is subverted at the cross of Christ, that in Christ, we discover a God who would rather die than kill his enemies, who says that we are not going to change the world by the sword, but by co-suffering love. And this temptation was presented to Jesus in the wilderness, that he was offered the capacity, the power to rule the world, to change the world. And the temptation for Christ would’ve been, you know what? Alexander the Great did it. Julius Caesar’s done it. I could do it, and I would do it for good. And I could overthrow Pontius Pilate. We could march on Rome, overthrow Tiberius, and I could establish by force, by the sword, by military might the kingdom of Jesus of Nazareth, except it wouldn’t change the world. It would just become the world.
When the Church reaches for the sword of political power. I know what the thinking is — we are going to use this for good and we’re going to change the world. No, you’re not going to change the world. You simply become the world.
The alternative to the world is the kingdom of Christ. And it is always cruciform in its posture and its emphasis and its language and how it relates to others. And so, this is foolishness to the world. So, if that strikes you as foolishness, well at least you know what is shaping how you think?
You have to believe in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ to embrace what Paul says about the cross as something other than foolishness. He says, “It’s the wisdom and power of God.” But until you can actually believe in resurrection, then it is going to remain foolishness.
Anthony: As we wrap up our time here, friends, I wanted to leave you with this message.
Barbara Brown Taylor said this, “I’d say that human beings never behave more badly toward one another than when they believe they are protecting God.” Our call is not to protect God. He doesn’t need our protection. We’re here to proclaim him as he’s revealed himself in the person and work of our Lord Jesus Christ, whom is revealed here in scripture.
Brian, I’m so grateful for you, so happy you could join us. Thank you so much. And I want to thank our team of people who make this possible. Michelle Hartman, Elizabeth Mullins, Reuel Enerio. What a great team. And as is our tradition here on Gospel Reverb, we close with a word of prayer. So, Brian, thank you. And would you lead us in prayer, please?
Brian: Thank you, Anthony.
Holy Father, I bring before you now all of us who are in one way or another participating in this podcast, hearing it, thinking about it. And my prayer is simply that the peace of Christ that passes understanding would guard all of our hearts and minds in Christ Jesus. There is so much in the world that presently can produce anxiety and anger and all of the things that swirl around that. I pray for the peace of Christ. I speak these words that come from St. Theresa of Avila. Let nothing disturb you. Let nothing frighten you. All things are passing away. God never changes. Patience, obtains all things. Whoever has God lacks nothing. God alone suffices. In the name of Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen and amen.
Anthony: Amen.
Small Group Discussion Questions
- What can the relationship within the Trinity teach us about how to live together as one church body?
- How can the way we handle differences in the church show the world what God is like?
- We can center our unity on Christ rather than on human personalities or opinions. What are some practical ways to do this?
- Our congregation or small group can model “unity without uniformity” in our community. What would it look like?
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