Welcome to this week’s episode, a special rerun from our Speaking of Life archive. We hope you find its timeless message as meaningful today as it was when it was first shared.
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Program Transcript
Speaking of Life 5008 | More Than I Can Say
Greg Williams
Sonny Curtis and Jerry Allison wrote a song called “More Than I Can Say” back in 1959. And it went on to be performed by Leo Sayer, who rode the song to the top of the billboards back in the 80s.
The lyrics were simple and repetitive. Here are the opening lines:
I love you more than I can say
I’ll love you twice as much tomorrow
Oh, love you more than I can say
Set to a catchy tune, this song will get stuck in your head for days. In addition, we can all identify with the experience of loving someone or something “more than we can say.”
Or, maybe it’s more than that. Perhaps this little ditty resonates with us at a far deeper level.
After all, praising comes quite easy for us does it not? Have you ever been startled by a streaking star shooting through the night sky that made you shout, “Wow! Look at that”? Or maybe the sighting of that rare double rainbow after a storm that turns everyone’s attention skyward with utterances of “oohs” and “ahhs.” It seems praise comes naturally when we are encountered with something amazing or beautiful.
“More Than I Can Say” may have been written back in 1959 but this is not the first time a songwriter has attempted to praise someone beyond words. Look at this lyric in Psalm 40 which is a thanksgiving Psalm:
You have multiplied, O Lord my God, your wondrous deeds and your thoughts toward us; none can compare with you!
I will proclaim and tell of them, yet they are more than can be told.
Psalm 40:5 (ESV)
When we come to know God for who he truly is, we too will be compelled to praise him “more than we can say.” That’s the blessed life we are created for. Praising God for all eternity means we are in the presence and in a relationship with One who is praiseworthy beyond words. We come to know this God only in Jesus Christ, who reveals this Father to us by the Spirit. The more we come to know our Triune God, the more our praise will naturally pour forth. And scripture indicates that this song of praise will get stuck in our heads for all eternity. After all, God is good…well…more than I can say.
I’m Greg Williams, Speaking of Life.
Program Transcript
Speaking of Life 5008 | More Than I Can Say
Greg Williams
Sonny Curtis and Jerry Allison wrote a song called “More Than I Can Say” back in 1959. And it went on to be performed by Leo Sayer, who rode the song to the top of the billboards back in the 80s.
The lyrics were simple and repetitive. Here are the opening lines:
I love you more than I can say
I’ll love you twice as much tomorrow
Oh, love you more than I can say
Set to a catchy tune, this song will get stuck in your head for days. In addition, we can all identify with the experience of loving someone or something “more than we can say.”
Or, maybe it’s more than that. Perhaps this little ditty resonates with us at a far deeper level.
After all, praising comes quite easy for us does it not? Have you ever been startled by a streaking star shooting through the night sky that made you shout, “Wow! Look at that”? Or maybe the sighting of that rare double rainbow after a storm that turns everyone’s attention skyward with utterances of “oohs” and “ahhs.” It seems praise comes naturally when we are encountered with something amazing or beautiful.
“More Than I Can Say” may have been written back in 1959 but this is not the first time a songwriter has attempted to praise someone beyond words. Look at this lyric in Psalm 40 which is a thanksgiving Psalm:
You have multiplied, O Lord my God, your wondrous deeds and your thoughts toward us; none can compare with you!
I will proclaim and tell of them, yet they are more than can be told.
Psalm 40:5 (ESV)
When we come to know God for who he truly is, we too will be compelled to praise him “more than we can say.” That’s the blessed life we are created for. Praising God for all eternity means we are in the presence and in a relationship with One who is praiseworthy beyond words. We come to know this God only in Jesus Christ, who reveals this Father to us by the Spirit. The more we come to know our Triune God, the more our praise will naturally pour forth. And scripture indicates that this song of praise will get stuck in our heads for all eternity. After all, God is good…well…more than I can say.
I’m Greg Williams, Speaking of Life.
Isaiah 49:1–7 • Psalm 40:1–11 • 1 Corinthians 1:1–9 • John 1:29–42
We are now in the season after Epiphany, a time of light, revelation, and calling. Our theme this Sunday is called and sent to proclaim Christ. The psalmist gives thanks for God’s deliverance and proclaims that true worship is found not just in sacrifice, but in doing God’s will and sharing his faithfulness in the great assembly. The prophet Isaiah speaks of a servant formed by God from the womb, called not only to restore Israel, but to be a light to the nations — so that God’s salvation may reach to the ends of the earth. Paul greets the church in Corinth with the reminder that they, too, are called into fellowship with Christ and gifted to participate in his mission. And in John’s Gospel, Jesus is revealed as the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world — recognized, followed, and proclaimed by his first disciples. Today’s reading reminds us that we are not only recipients of grace — we are also witnesses, sent to help others recognize and follow the One who has come to dwell among us.
Reminder: This introductory paragraph is intended to show how the four RCL selections for this week are connected and to assist the preacher prepare the sermon. It is not intended to be included in the sermon.
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In the Shadows
John 1:29–42 NRSVUE
(Read or ask someone to read the passage.)
35 The next day John again was standing with two of his disciples, 36 and as he watched Jesus walk by he exclaimed, “Look, here is the Lamb of God!” 37 The two disciples heard him say this, and they followed Jesus. 38 When Jesus turned and saw them following, he said to them, “What are you looking for?” They said to him, “Rabbi” (which translated means Teacher), “where are you staying?” 39 He said to them, “Come and see.” They came and saw where he was staying, and they remained with him that day. It was about four o’clock in the afternoon. 40 One of the two who heard John speak and followed him was Andrew, Simon Peter’s brother. 41 He first found his brother Simon and said to him, “We have found the Messiah” (which is translated Anointed). 42 He brought Simon to Jesus, who looked at him and said, “You are Simon son of John. You are to be called Cephas” (which is translated Peter). John 1:29–42 NRSVUE
Every great story has its leading figures — the names that get remembered, the ones on the marquee. But in every story worth telling, there are also the quiet ones. There are quiet ones who move faithfully in the background, holding the line, showing up.
We might call them people in the shadows. They’re the ones who don’t take the stage, but without whom the story would fall apart.
In today’s passage, one of those shadow people steps into the light for a brief moment. His name is Andrew. He is known to most of us only as Simon Peter’s brother.
He doesn’t preach a sermon like Peter. He doesn’t write a gospel like John. He doesn’t thunder like James. He’s not the one people whisper about at the fire or carve statues for centuries later.
Yet, Andrew’s quiet, steady presence opens a window into the heart of God. His story shows us what happens when ordinary people are caught up in the extraordinary life of the triune God, revealed in Jesus Christ.
“Look, the Lamb of God”
John’s Gospel begins with a powerful declaration. John the Baptist, surrounded by crowds, sees Jesus walking toward him and cries out,
“Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!” John 1:29 ESV
It’s a stunning statement. John sees in Jesus the fulfillment of all of Israel’s longings. It appears from John’s statement that he gets it! Jesus is the true Passover Lamb. He is the one who would free God’s people not from Egypt this time, but from sin and death. Standing nearby, is Andrew.
Andrew was already a disciple of John the Baptist. He had been listening, learning, and waiting. He was part of a movement preparing for God to act, but like John, he didn’t yet know what that would look like.
When John points to Jesus, Andrew’s life changes with one sentence: “Look, here is the Lamb of God!” (verse 36)
Andrew doesn’t need convincing or argument. He simply goes. He follows.
That’s what faith can look like when it’s stirred by the Spirit. It’s not a calculation but a response. God reveals himself and the human heart leans forward.
The God Who Comes Close
Notice the direction of movement in this passage.
John stands still, Jesus walks by. The divine Word doesn’t wait for the right people to climb up to him. He passes through human life, through ordinary places and ordinary days.
That’s the Incarnation: the eternal Son entering the shadows of human existence.
Jesus is the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world.
This is the heart of the triune God revealed. The Father sends the Son, the Son walks among us, and the Spirit opens our eyes to see and recognize the Lamb.
Even in this early scene, we glimpse all three Persons of the Trinity at work:
-
- The Father who has a world he loves too much to leave in ruin.
- The Son who steps into that world as the Lamb who bears it all.
- The Spirit who descends, who reveals, who remains.
The whole Godhead is moving toward humanity, and Andrew is one of the first to respond.
The First Follower
The Greek Orthodox Church has a name for Andrew: Protokletos — “the first called.”
He’s the first one to follow Jesus. He’s the first to say yes, not because he’s the most gifted or confident, but because he’s attentive.
While others are busy, Andrew is listening. He’s watching. When John says, “Look,” Andrew looks.
There’s a lesson here. Often, we hear the call to follow Christ in stillness, in attentiveness. It’s not always in the noise of success or the excitement of miracles. It’s in the quiet heart that’s listening, already turned toward God’s coming.
Andrew’s story begins not with activity and producing, but with perception — in noticing where God is already at work.
“What Are You Looking For?”
As Andrew and another disciple begin following Jesus, he turns and asks them the first words he ever speaks in John’s Gospel: “What are you looking for?” (verse 38)
It’s an astonishing question from the eternal Word made flesh. The one through whom all things were created turns to two ordinary men and asks them about their desire.
Here Jesus begins not with command, but with invitation.
“What are you looking for?”
It’s a question that still echoes. What are you looking for? What hunger brings you here today?
The two disciples don’t give a theological answer. They ask, almost shyly, “Rabbi, where are you staying?” (verse 38)
They don’t yet know what they want. They just know they want to be with him.
Jesus responds with the simplest, most gracious words in the Gospel: “Come and see” (verse 39).
This is the rhythm of grace — revelation and invitation. God reveals himself, not to overwhelm us, but to draw us in. The Incarnate Son doesn’t lecture them from a distance; he welcomes them into his presence.
Jesus is so compelling and trustworthy, they go stay with him throughout that day. And though John doesn’t tell us what they talked about, something in that encounter changes everything.
The Fellowship of the Triune God
That simple day — spending time with Jesus — echoes the fellowship of the Trinity itself.
From all eternity, the Father, Son, and Spirit have lived in perfect communion — loving, giving, receiving. This shared life is what makes God who God is: love, relationship, joy.
And here in John 1, that divine fellowship spills into human life. God doesn’t just come to save us; he comes to share his life with us.
Andrew and John sit with Jesus in the fading light of the afternoon, and their world is never the same. In their quiet conversation, the triune God makes himself known.
The Power of Presence
Andrew’s strength is not in his speeches or his miracles, but in his presence. He is simply there. He shows up!
He’s there when Jesus calls the first disciples. He’s there when Jesus feeds the five thousand. He’s there when Greeks come asking to meet Jesus. He’s there at the Last Supper, in the Upper Room, and after the resurrection.
He doesn’t always speak, but he shows up.
Sometimes that’s the deepest form or expression of faith — to be there. To be where Christ is, even if you don’t have all the answers.
Our world seems obsessed with visibility and recognition. But Andrew reminds us that the kingdom of God often moves through hidden faithfulness. The triune God delights to work through the quiet, the overlooked, the ones who stay when others rush away, the one who listens rather than lectures.
Andrew Trusts Jesus
In John 6, Jesus tests his disciples by asking how they will feed a crowd of five thousand. Philip protests that it’s impossible — there isn’t enough.
But Andrew says, “Here is a boy with five small barley loaves and two small fish …”
It’s a small gesture, almost naïve. Yet it reveals the seed of faith that’s been growing since that first afternoon with Jesus. Andrew doesn’t know how Jesus will do it — but he has come to learn that Jesus is good, generous, and trustworthy.
Andrew’s offering, small as it is, becomes part of a miracle that feeds thousands. And that’s often how God works. He takes what little we have and folds it into His abundance.
The life of the triune God is overflowing generosity. The Trinity is the Father giving the Son, the Son giving himself, the Spirit giving life. We are included in that flow. Even our smallest acts become part of God’s great provision.
Every Person Matters
Throughout the Gospels, Andrew lives in the shadow of his brother Peter. Peter is bold, impulsive, and unforgettable. Andrew is steady, consistent, and often unnamed.
Yet in the economy of God’s kingdom, that’s not a demotion — it’s discipleship. Andrew is content to point others to Jesus — even his own brother.
The very first thing Andrew does after meeting Jesus is to find Peter and say, “We have found the Messiah” (verse 41).
He brings his brother to meet Jesus. And from that moment, Peter’s story takes off. But Andrew’s participation is not diminished by that; it’s fulfilled.
This is what love looks like in the trinitarian life of God: self-giving that rejoices in another’s blessing. The Son glorifies the Father, the Father glorifies the Son, the Spirit glorifies both. Each gives way to the other in perfect love.
In the values of God’s kingdom, no one life is more important than another. Every person matters. Every person counts.
“Come and See”: The Mission of God
Andrew’s quiet witness continues to be a model for the Church’s mission. He simply says, “Come and see.” That phrase — “come and see” — captures the heart of missional living.
When we invite others into friendship, conversation, or community, we do what Andrew did. We show up and make space to point people to Jesus.
The triune God is always extending this invitation. The Father sends the Son, the Son draws us by the Spirit, and the Spirit brings us into communion with the Father. Every act of mission is participation in that ongoing divine movement.
We can invite someone to dinner, pray with a friend, or show up faithfully to serve. Those are echoes of Andrew’s simple words: “Come and see.”
The God Who Works in the Shadows
Andrew’s life reminds us that God often works in the background. The Spirit’s work is often hidden, subtle, and steady.
Even when we don’t feel significant, God’s life is unfolding in and through us.
The Incarnation means that God has stepped into the shadows and filled them with light. The Trinity means that we never walk alone. Father, Son, and Spirit are always at work, always inviting, always redeeming.
When you show up in love, you’re sharing in the life of the triune God moving through the ordinary.
Be an Andrew
Andrew teaches us three simple, profound lessons:
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- Understand that you matter to God. Do you long to feel seen? God delights in steady faith more than public recognition. God sees you. Spend time with Jesus and you will begin to learn how very good and trustworthy he is.
- Offer your loaves and fish. Don’t wait until you have enough to make a difference. Bring what you have, however small, and place it in Jesus’ hands.
- Be present. The world doesn’t need more noise — it needs presence. Be there for people. Listen. Love. Point quietly to the Lamb of God. Show up in your neighborhood and offer: come and see.
Conclusion: The Light in the Shadows
Andrew’s life is proof that the story of God is not just about the heroes in the spotlight — it’s about those willing and present in the shadows.
In Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God, the triune God steps into our world, our work, and our obscurity, and says, “Come and see.”
He is still calling, still gathering, still shining light into dark corners through people like Andrew — and through people like you and me.
You may never have a platform. You may never have your name remembered. But if you live your life as a quiet pointer to the Lamb of God, then the light of the world is shining through you.
In the end, that’s what matters most.
“Look,” John says, “the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world.” And Andrew followed him.
May we do the same — in our words, in our love, in our faithful presence, in our shadows — until the day we, too, see the Lamb face to face.
Amen.
Brian Zahnd—Year A Epiphany 2
Listen to audio: https://cloud.gci.org/dl/GReverb/GR071-Zahnd-YearA-Epiphany2.mp3
Sunday, January 18, 2025 — Second Sunday after Epiphany
John 1:29-42 NRSVUE
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Program Transcript
Brian Zahnd—Year A Epiphany 2
Anthony: Alright, let’s transition to our next text. It’s John 1:29–42. It is a Revised Common Lectionary passage for the second Sunday after Epiphany on January 18.
The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him and declared, “Here is the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world! 30 This is he of whom I said, ‘After me comes a man who ranks ahead of me because he was before me.’ 31 I myself did not know him, but I came baptizing with water for this reason, that he might be revealed to Israel.” 32 And John testified, “I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it remained on him. 33 I myself did not know him, but the one who sent me to baptize with water said to me, ‘He on whom you see the Spirit descend and remain is the one who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.’ 34 And I myself have seen and have testified that this is the Chosen One.” 35 The next day John again was standing with two of his disciples, 36 and as he watched Jesus walk by he exclaimed, “Look, here is the Lamb of God!” 37 The two disciples heard him say this, and they followed Jesus. 38 When Jesus turned and saw them following, he said to them, “What are you looking for?” They said to him, “Rabbi” (which translated means Teacher), “where are you staying?” 39 He said to them, “Come and see.” They came and saw where he was staying, and they remained with him that day. It was about four o’clock in the afternoon. 40 One of the two who heard John speak and followed him was Andrew, Simon Peter’s brother. 41 He first found his brother Simon and said to him, “We have found the Messiah” (which is translated Anointed). 42 He brought Simon to Jesus, who looked at him and said, “You are Simon son of John. You are to be called Cephas” (which is translated Peter).
Brian, the declarative statement from John the Baptist, that Jesus is the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world, it’s such liberating news, right?
Brian: Oh yeah.
Anthony: Or so it would seem. In a punitive society where people want a pound of flesh from those who have harmed them, we haven’t lived a moral life according to their standards, and the list goes on and on. What would you say to those who struggle with a God who forgives both victim and victimizer?
Brian: So, the pushback will come if the victimizer is just given some sort of cheap pardon, like releasing that congressman, commuting his sentence — I can’t remember his name. But that is not the way to think about the saving work of Christ.
Rather, it’s not purely just forensic, and we think in terms of legalities, and we think in terms of a potentate handing out pardons no matter what the mindset of the one who has committed the crime.
No, Christ forgives as he heals and he heals as he forgives and the person is transformed. There is no forgiveness, apart from repentance, but that is a transformative change of mind that alters who we really are.
For example, when Jesus says, “Depart from me, I never knew you,” there’s actually a grace there that Christ refuses to acknowledge the false self we are trying to become.
Anthony: Come on.
Brian: And so, when Jesus forgives, it is in the process of also healing. So, think of Jesus more of as a doctor treating the whole being, and forgiveness being therapeutic, not so much judicial. There’s that aspect, I suppose. I don’t think I would like to think of it that way.
And so, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world. Yes, there is the sense in which the guilt, because at Calvary, the sin of the world coalesces into a hideous singularity. Jesus takes all the blame. Lamb of God is sort of a riff in some ways on the scapegoat. But John emphasizes the innocence of the scapegoat by making it not a goat but a lamb. And not only a lamb, but the Lamb of God.
And so, at Calvary, the sins of the world become the singular sin of the world with great violence, sent into this Lamb, this innocent one, this Holy One, that the sin of the world might be forgiven en masse. So, when the Son prays, “Father forgive them,” the Son is not acting as an agent of change upon the Father, because the Father doesn’t change. The Father is immutable.
What the Son does is reveal the Father. So, you could imagine when Jesus says, “Father, forgive them,” the Father responds, “Of course, Son. That’s who we are. That’s what we do.” And so, there is forgiveness. The way of forgiveness, the offer of forgiveness is settled once and for all in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
But the experience of it is not handed out in some sort of cheap way, independent of how the sinner himself responds. And so, I think, if you explain that to people, any kind of anxiety about forgiveness being cheap and grace being made cheap and bestowed independent of any kind of accountability, judgment, or repentance, I think we can brush that aside and that won’t be a problem for people.
Anthony: Yeah, I think that’s to look at Scripture from an objective and subjective perspective, that objectively all of sin has been forgiven. And yet subjectively, very personally, I experienced that day by day, the healing of that, the metanoia of that.
And so, that’s something that we — I don’t know if the right way to put it is — live into, but we experience it as we go. And I tell you; it’s healing. What was it? I can’t remember if which of the Gregorys said it, but “He’s not only the doctor, but he became the patient,” as a representative to heal it from the inside out. Hallelujah. Praise God.
John the Baptist, that guy had quite the following. He was …
Brian: Oh yeah.
Anthony: A lot of people were going out to see this crazy man out in the wilderness and he had to put it in modern terms. He had a platform.
Brian: Yes. Right.
Anthony: Many subscribers. Something about this. What do you make of when two of his followers get up to follow Jesus? And you hear no grousing from John. There’s something there, right, for us to learn.
Brian: Yeah. You follow the whole storyline all the way into the third chapter where eventually many people have left John the Baptist and are now going to Jesus and some of John the Baptist’s disciples are disturbed by this. And they announce this. They say, “Hey, everybody, nobody’s coming to our meetings anymore. They’re all going over to Jesus’ meetings.” And there’s the whole thing about the bridegroom and all of that sort of thing. He says “I’m not the bridegroom, but I’m the best man, as it were. So, I’m rejoicing. I’m happy that he’s got the bride.” But then the most memorable line is, “He must increase, but I must decrease.”
Anthony: Yes.
Brian: And there’s a line from the Lord of the Rings that I think about when I read that, or when I read this in The Lord of the Rings, I think about John 3:30. It goes both ways. But it’s the moment when Frodo offers the ring to Galadriel, who is this very powerful elf. We hear the word elf and we don’t think of power, but in Tolkien’s word world, this is a very powerful being. And she admits, “Oh, I have dreamed of this. I won’t deny that my heart has longed for it.”
And then there’s this moment where she begins to fantasize about if she had the ring. Instead of a king, you would have a queen. I would be not dark, but lovely, and all would look upon me and despair — there’s that scene. But she resists. She resists and she refuses the ring and she comes back into her right mind. And she says — and I think I’m getting pretty accurate. She says, “I passed the test. I shall diminish and remain Galadriel. Aha. I shall diminish, but I’ll be myself. I’ll be who I am.”
Anthony: Yes, true self.
Brian: Her influence would diminish. It’s not really, she’s going to diminish. It’s her — to use what you use — her platform, her influence, her power is going to diminish, but she will remain Galadriel and not become a female Sauron, not become monstrous. And so, I think we have to really commend John the Baptist for recognizing what his role was. And he’s always like that. “Who are you?” People were ready to believe he’s the Messiah. He said, “I’m not the Messiah. I’m not the prophet. I’m not the coming one.” “What are you?” “I’m just a voice out in the desert saying ‘Get ready, because it’s coming,’ but it’s not me. I’m not even worthy to untie his shoes.” So we love John the Baptist for this.
Anthony: Yeah. Anything else from the text that you’d want to point out?
Brian: There’s 20 sermons in here. You know what? I don’t think I’ve ever done this. But I could imagine doing a sermon called “Four O’clock in the Afternoon.”
Anthony: Yeah, I could hear it now.
Brian: Just because it’s a provocative time, “Four o’clock in the afternoon.” And probably what I would do with it is talk about how there are those moments in our life when we encounter Christ, either initially or in some new way, that we will remember it forever. It was four o’clock in the afternoon, or when, or whatever.
Anthony: Yeah. I love that.
Brian: I’ve got stories from that, yeah. I would draw from my own life but then present it to people to be open that Christ can come into your life in such a way. And it’s four o’clock in the afternoon. That’s not when great things happen.
Anthony: It’s siesta time, right?
Brian: Yeah. Yeah. So I would play with it like that. I may even do that. I may even do that. That has potential.
Anthony: It’s always struck me — Jesus, when they ask, “What are you looking for?” Ultimately, I hear them asking, “Are you the guy? Are you the one we’re waiting for?” Yes, and instead of saying, “Yeah, I’m your guy,” he’s, “Come hang out with me, like for the rest of the day.” This is so relational. This is who Father, Son, and Spirit are.
Brian: Ultimately, that’s the only real apologetic we have. “Come and see.”
Anthony: “Come and see.”
Brian: So, by the way, it’s why I’m a little bit skeptical of the whole project of comparative religions. If you’re trying to be ecumenical and peaceable, I get all that. I’m for all of that. But I don’t like the presumption that you can stand above religions and say, oh, this one is that, and this one is the other thing. And I, from my secular perch, can analyze them all and compare them. No. You don’t know what it is to be a Muslim unless you believe as a Muslim. You don’t know what it is to be a Hindu unless you believe as a Hindu. You don’t know what it means to be a Christian unless you believe as a Christian. And so, how do we know that Jesus is the Christ? There’re all kinds of things we can say, but ultimately, I’m left with saying, “Come and see.”
Anthony: “Come and see.”
Brian: “Come and see.’ Yeah.
Program Transcript
Brian Zahnd—Year A Epiphany 2
Anthony: Alright, let’s transition to our next text. It’s John 1:29–42. It is a Revised Common Lectionary passage for the second Sunday after Epiphany on January 18.
The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him and declared, “Here is the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world! 30 This is he of whom I said, ‘After me comes a man who ranks ahead of me because he was before me.’ 31 I myself did not know him, but I came baptizing with water for this reason, that he might be revealed to Israel.” 32 And John testified, “I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it remained on him. 33 I myself did not know him, but the one who sent me to baptize with water said to me, ‘He on whom you see the Spirit descend and remain is the one who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.’ 34 And I myself have seen and have testified that this is the Chosen One.” 35 The next day John again was standing with two of his disciples, 36 and as he watched Jesus walk by he exclaimed, “Look, here is the Lamb of God!” 37 The two disciples heard him say this, and they followed Jesus. 38 When Jesus turned and saw them following, he said to them, “What are you looking for?” They said to him, “Rabbi” (which translated means Teacher), “where are you staying?” 39 He said to them, “Come and see.” They came and saw where he was staying, and they remained with him that day. It was about four o’clock in the afternoon. 40 One of the two who heard John speak and followed him was Andrew, Simon Peter’s brother. 41 He first found his brother Simon and said to him, “We have found the Messiah” (which is translated Anointed). 42 He brought Simon to Jesus, who looked at him and said, “You are Simon son of John. You are to be called Cephas” (which is translated Peter).
Brian, the declarative statement from John the Baptist, that Jesus is the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world, it’s such liberating news, right?
Brian: Oh yeah.
Anthony: Or so it would seem. In a punitive society where people want a pound of flesh from those who have harmed them, we haven’t lived a moral life according to their standards, and the list goes on and on. What would you say to those who struggle with a God who forgives both victim and victimizer?
Brian: So, the pushback will come if the victimizer is just given some sort of cheap pardon, like releasing that congressman, commuting his sentence — I can’t remember his name. But that is not the way to think about the saving work of Christ.
Rather, it’s not purely just forensic, and we think in terms of legalities, and we think in terms of a potentate handing out pardons no matter what the mindset of the one who has committed the crime.
No, Christ forgives as he heals and he heals as he forgives and the person is transformed. There is no forgiveness, apart from repentance, but that is a transformative change of mind that alters who we really are.
For example, when Jesus says, “Depart from me, I never knew you,” there’s actually a grace there that Christ refuses to acknowledge the false self we are trying to become.
Anthony: Come on.
Brian: And so, when Jesus forgives, it is in the process of also healing. So, think of Jesus more of as a doctor treating the whole being, and forgiveness being therapeutic, not so much judicial. There’s that aspect, I suppose. I don’t think I would like to think of it that way.
And so, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world. Yes, there is the sense in which the guilt, because at Calvary, the sin of the world coalesces into a hideous singularity. Jesus takes all the blame. Lamb of God is sort of a riff in some ways on the scapegoat. But John emphasizes the innocence of the scapegoat by making it not a goat but a lamb. And not only a lamb, but the Lamb of God.
And so, at Calvary, the sins of the world become the singular sin of the world with great violence, sent into this Lamb, this innocent one, this Holy One, that the sin of the world might be forgiven en masse. So, when the Son prays, “Father forgive them,” the Son is not acting as an agent of change upon the Father, because the Father doesn’t change. The Father is immutable.
What the Son does is reveal the Father. So, you could imagine when Jesus says, “Father, forgive them,” the Father responds, “Of course, Son. That’s who we are. That’s what we do.” And so, there is forgiveness. The way of forgiveness, the offer of forgiveness is settled once and for all in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
But the experience of it is not handed out in some sort of cheap way, independent of how the sinner himself responds. And so, I think, if you explain that to people, any kind of anxiety about forgiveness being cheap and grace being made cheap and bestowed independent of any kind of accountability, judgment, or repentance, I think we can brush that aside and that won’t be a problem for people.
Anthony: Yeah, I think that’s to look at Scripture from an objective and subjective perspective, that objectively all of sin has been forgiven. And yet subjectively, very personally, I experienced that day by day, the healing of that, the metanoia of that.
And so, that’s something that we — I don’t know if the right way to put it is — live into, but we experience it as we go. And I tell you; it’s healing. What was it? I can’t remember if which of the Gregorys said it, but “He’s not only the doctor, but he became the patient,” as a representative to heal it from the inside out. Hallelujah. Praise God.
John the Baptist, that guy had quite the following. He was …
Brian: Oh yeah.
Anthony: A lot of people were going out to see this crazy man out in the wilderness and he had to put it in modern terms. He had a platform.
Brian: Yes. Right.
Anthony: Many subscribers. Something about this. What do you make of when two of his followers get up to follow Jesus? And you hear no grousing from John. There’s something there, right, for us to learn.
Brian: Yeah. You follow the whole storyline all the way into the third chapter where eventually many people have left John the Baptist and are now going to Jesus and some of John the Baptist’s disciples are disturbed by this. And they announce this. They say, “Hey, everybody, nobody’s coming to our meetings anymore. They’re all going over to Jesus’ meetings.” And there’s the whole thing about the bridegroom and all of that sort of thing. He says “I’m not the bridegroom, but I’m the best man, as it were. So, I’m rejoicing. I’m happy that he’s got the bride.” But then the most memorable line is, “He must increase, but I must decrease.”
Anthony: Yes.
Brian: And there’s a line from the Lord of the Rings that I think about when I read that, or when I read this in The Lord of the Rings, I think about John 3:30. It goes both ways. But it’s the moment when Frodo offers the ring to Galadriel, who is this very powerful elf. We hear the word elf and we don’t think of power, but in Tolkien’s word world, this is a very powerful being. And she admits, “Oh, I have dreamed of this. I won’t deny that my heart has longed for it.”
And then there’s this moment where she begins to fantasize about if she had the ring. Instead of a king, you would have a queen. I would be not dark, but lovely, and all would look upon me and despair — there’s that scene. But she resists. She resists and she refuses the ring and she comes back into her right mind. And she says — and I think I’m getting pretty accurate. She says, “I passed the test. I shall diminish and remain Galadriel. Aha. I shall diminish, but I’ll be myself. I’ll be who I am.”
Anthony: Yes, true self.
Brian: Her influence would diminish. It’s not really, she’s going to diminish. It’s her — to use what you use — her platform, her influence, her power is going to diminish, but she will remain Galadriel and not become a female Sauron, not become monstrous. And so, I think we have to really commend John the Baptist for recognizing what his role was. And he’s always like that. “Who are you?” People were ready to believe he’s the Messiah. He said, “I’m not the Messiah. I’m not the prophet. I’m not the coming one.” “What are you?” “I’m just a voice out in the desert saying ‘Get ready, because it’s coming,’ but it’s not me. I’m not even worthy to untie his shoes.” So we love John the Baptist for this.
Anthony: Yeah. Anything else from the text that you’d want to point out?
Brian: There’s 20 sermons in here. You know what? I don’t think I’ve ever done this. But I could imagine doing a sermon called “Four O’clock in the Afternoon.”
Anthony: Yeah, I could hear it now.
Brian: Just because it’s a provocative time, “Four o’clock in the afternoon.” And probably what I would do with it is talk about how there are those moments in our life when we encounter Christ, either initially or in some new way, that we will remember it forever. It was four o’clock in the afternoon, or when, or whatever.
Anthony: Yeah. I love that.
Brian: I’ve got stories from that, yeah. I would draw from my own life but then present it to people to be open that Christ can come into your life in such a way. And it’s four o’clock in the afternoon. That’s not when great things happen.
Anthony: It’s siesta time, right?
Brian: Yeah. Yeah. So I would play with it like that. I may even do that. I may even do that. That has potential.
Anthony: It’s always struck me — Jesus, when they ask, “What are you looking for?” Ultimately, I hear them asking, “Are you the guy? Are you the one we’re waiting for?” Yes, and instead of saying, “Yeah, I’m your guy,” he’s, “Come hang out with me, like for the rest of the day.” This is so relational. This is who Father, Son, and Spirit are.
Brian: Ultimately, that’s the only real apologetic we have. “Come and see.”
Anthony: “Come and see.”
Brian: So, by the way, it’s why I’m a little bit skeptical of the whole project of comparative religions. If you’re trying to be ecumenical and peaceable, I get all that. I’m for all of that. But I don’t like the presumption that you can stand above religions and say, oh, this one is that, and this one is the other thing. And I, from my secular perch, can analyze them all and compare them. No. You don’t know what it is to be a Muslim unless you believe as a Muslim. You don’t know what it is to be a Hindu unless you believe as a Hindu. You don’t know what it means to be a Christian unless you believe as a Christian. And so, how do we know that Jesus is the Christ? There’re all kinds of things we can say, but ultimately, I’m left with saying, “Come and see.”
Anthony: “Come and see.”
Brian: “Come and see.’ Yeah.
Small Group Discussion Questions
- The Lamb of God is one name for Jesus. What does that name reveal about God?
- Jesus said, “Come and see.” How can we, as individuals or as a church, embody that same invitational spirit?
- Andrew’s first act as a disciple is to bring someone else — his brother Peter — to Jesus. How might that look for us to follow Andrew’s example?
- How might your everyday presence be a way of quietly pointing others to Christ? At work, in your neighborhood, at school?
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