Welcome to this week’s episode, a special rerun from our Speaking of Life archive. We hope you find its timeless message as meaningful today as it was when it was first shared.
Watch video on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-V6mrVw2bVA
Program Transcript
Speaking Of Life Script 4035 | Debt Forgiveness in Christ
Cara Garrity
In The United States of America, more than 44 million people have outstanding school loan debt – amounting to more than $1.5 trillion that is currently owed. The forgiveness of school loan debt is currently one of the hot-button issues in American politics right now.
Many of the borrowers are paying thousands of dollars every year but are finding it nearly impossible to get out from underneath this mountain of debt. Those who have just recently graduated are starting to realize that they will be paying on these loans into their senior years. The prospect of having to carry that load for most of the rest of their lives seems overwhelming.
While the topic is controversial for some, debt forgiveness is not a new concept. Part of the “Year of Jubilee” we read about in the Old Testament includes debt forgiveness every 50 years. We can also see debt forgiveness in ancient Babylon in the “Hammurabi Code”. Hammurabi ruled the Babylonian empire for 42 years. During his reign, he instituted four different general debt cancellations. The writings confirm that these were designed to ensure that the poor were not exploited and oppressed by the rich and that the widows and orphans were not burdened.
We also see debt forgiveness as far back as the 8th century BC practiced by the Egyptians. When the Rosetta Stone was finally deciphered in 1822, they found the inscriptions confirming debt cancellation. You can only imagine the relief brought about by the canceling of one’s debts. But these are just physical debts.
The Apostle Paul, who was well-schooled and was most likely educated about these historical practices, wrote about a more important debt to the Colossian Church:
“And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This He set aside, nailing it to the cross. He disarmed the rulers and authorities and put them to open shame, by triumphing over them in Him.
Colossians 2:13-15 (ESV)
Before Jesus came, we were all under a great mountain of debt. There was no possible way for us to get ourselves out from underneath this burden. Until Jesus, there was no debt forgiveness in sight.
You may remember Paul’s oft-quoted statement “For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.” He said this to believers in Rome, reminding them that when Jesus went to the cross, he took all sin and all the trespasses of mankind with him. Everything was forgiven and we are now able to live free from the burden and demands of sin. We are redeemed citizens of the kingdom of God. Never again to be oppressed and ruled over by sin and death. All the charges against us have been nullified in Christ.
But the work of Christ goes so much further than just the forgiveness of sin and the release of the bondage to sin. We have been made alive with Christ, and it is through him that we are able to triumph in this life and the next.
Furthermore, unlike the ancient civilizations of Babylon and Egypt, where you could find yourself back to being in debt, we have died to that debt once and for all – we will never be under a system of spiritual debt again.
Although, in this life, you may find yourself in debt due to buying a home or a car or taking out a school loan that you might be paying on until your grandkids are grown, just know that spiritually you are never going to be a debtor.
We are released from the oppression of sin and are living debt-free in Christ, who has freed and raised us into new life!
I am Cara Garrity, Speaking of Life.
Program Transcript
Speaking Of Life Script 4035 | Debt Forgiveness in Christ
Cara Garrity
In The United States of America, more than 44 million people have outstanding school loan debt – amounting to more than $1.5 trillion that is currently owed. The forgiveness of school loan debt is currently one of the hot-button issues in American politics right now.
Many of the borrowers are paying thousands of dollars every year but are finding it nearly impossible to get out from underneath this mountain of debt. Those who have just recently graduated are starting to realize that they will be paying on these loans into their senior years. The prospect of having to carry that load for most of the rest of their lives seems overwhelming.
While the topic is controversial for some, debt forgiveness is not a new concept. Part of the “Year of Jubilee” we read about in the Old Testament includes debt forgiveness every 50 years. We can also see debt forgiveness in ancient Babylon in the “Hammurabi Code”. Hammurabi ruled the Babylonian empire for 42 years. During his reign, he instituted four different general debt cancellations. The writings confirm that these were designed to ensure that the poor were not exploited and oppressed by the rich and that the widows and orphans were not burdened.
We also see debt forgiveness as far back as the 8th century BC practiced by the Egyptians. When the Rosetta Stone was finally deciphered in 1822, they found the inscriptions confirming debt cancellation. You can only imagine the relief brought about by the canceling of one’s debts. But these are just physical debts.
The Apostle Paul, who was well-schooled and was most likely educated about these historical practices, wrote about a more important debt to the Colossian Church:
“And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This He set aside, nailing it to the cross. He disarmed the rulers and authorities and put them to open shame, by triumphing over them in Him.
Colossians 2:13-15 (ESV)
Before Jesus came, we were all under a great mountain of debt. There was no possible way for us to get ourselves out from underneath this burden. Until Jesus, there was no debt forgiveness in sight.
You may remember Paul’s oft-quoted statement “For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.” He said this to believers in Rome, reminding them that when Jesus went to the cross, he took all sin and all the trespasses of mankind with him. Everything was forgiven and we are now able to live free from the burden and demands of sin. We are redeemed citizens of the kingdom of God. Never again to be oppressed and ruled over by sin and death. All the charges against us have been nullified in Christ.
But the work of Christ goes so much further than just the forgiveness of sin and the release of the bondage to sin. We have been made alive with Christ, and it is through him that we are able to triumph in this life and the next.
Furthermore, unlike the ancient civilizations of Babylon and Egypt, where you could find yourself back to being in debt, we have died to that debt once and for all – we will never be under a system of spiritual debt again.
Although, in this life, you may find yourself in debt due to buying a home or a car or taking out a school loan that you might be paying on until your grandkids are grown, just know that spiritually you are never going to be a debtor.
We are released from the oppression of sin and are living debt-free in Christ, who has freed and raised us into new life!
I am Cara Garrity, Speaking of Life.
Psalm 85:1–13 • Hosea 1:2–10 • Colossians 2:6–19 • Luke 11:1–13
This week’s theme is aligning to God’s grace. In our call to worship psalm, the sins of Israel are acknowledged but a message of hope emerges from the portrayal of God’s faithfulness and forgiveness. The Old Testament text in Hosea displays the divine disfavor of God with Israel but ends with a reminder of God’s faithfulness to his promises to them. The reading from Colossians exhorts us to live out the life we have in Christ, an exhortation that warns against being captivated by worldly views contrary to Christ, as well as useless and needless pursuits. The Gospel text in Luke provides an overall theme of prayer which includes the shorter version of the Lord’s prayer that encourages us to seek alignment with God’s will.
How to use this sermon resource.
Walk in Christ
Colossians 2:6–19 ESV
Last week in our passage from Colossians, we were reminded by Paul of who Jesus is, what he has done, and who we are in relationship to him. That passage paints a glorious reality that the Lord has established for us. Today we will continue with Paul’s address to the believers in Colossae. We’ll see some of the implications of believing and living out of this gospel reality. That’s why our passage today begins with the word, “therefore.” “Therefore” is a word that connects what was previously said to what is coming. Paul wants to help us see that because of who Jesus is, what he has done, and the fact that Christ is “in you,” we have a new reality open to us that we can live out.
Before we look at this passage it will be important to note a dangerous issue Paul is trying to deal with in his letter. False teachings were creeping into the Colossian church that undermined the truth that Christ the most important thing and all we need. We can’t be certain exactly what the form of false teaching was, but it was leading some to judge others for not following certain cultural ideologies or engaging in some specific ascetic practices. In short, the Colossian church was being tempted to establish their own spiritual or religious standing apart from Christ or in addition to Christ. This is not a distant or foreign challenge for the Church today, or any day for that matter. There is always pressure from the surrounding culture for the Church to conform to the latest “way of thinking” that presents itself as wiser and more knowledgeable than the gospel message. However, this conformity often leads to idolatry. We end up seeking our justification and righteousness in something other than Jesus Christ. Paul’s way of dealing with this is to return to the basics, reminding the believers in Colossae who they belong to and who has redeemed them. They only need to hold onto Christ and not grasp at any passing fad that claims to offer something better. [The presenter might give an example of a passing fad that seems to offer “something better”.]
Let’s see how Paul chooses to address the issue:
Therefore, as you received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in him, rooted and built up in him and established in the faith, just as you were taught, abounding in thanksgiving. Colossians 2:6–7 ESV
Paul begins by reminding them of who they are as those who have “received Christ Jesus the Lord.” What they have received is the one who is “Lord.” Paul seems to want to emphasize that part of Jesus’ identity. If you have the Lord, especially the Lord as described earlier in Paul’s letter in the hymn in Colossians 1:15–20, then there is nothing greater to receive. And notice the note of grace Paul paints with the word “received.” This is what it means to be a believer in Jesus. We are those who trust him to give us life and all things. We know he is the giver, and we are to receive all that he gives us. He is the “head,” the source of our lives, and we are the “body” those who trust and follow him in all things. This sets up a contrast from the circulating idea that they need to work up their own righteousness. Paul’s statement highlights two competing ways of living — achieving versus receiving. But his statement also positions only one way that is a fact for those who are facing these false teachings. They have received Jesus as Lord.
Springing from that fact, Paul then encourages them to “walk in [Jesus].” This is a way of saying that their lives should align to the reality of belonging to the Lord. Paul then offers two metaphors that provide the foundation to walk on. They are to be “rooted” and “built up” in him. These two metaphors, one organic and one architectural, combine to express a top-to-bottom saturation of living in Christ. Paul also speaks of being “established in the faith” which also conveys a grounding in the reality they have in Christ. Paul also reminds them that this is not some new fad idea like the ones being floated by false teachers. What they have is what they have been “taught.” There is history and tradition backing their knowledge of who Jesus is and what he has done.
Paul adds “abounding in thanksgiving,” which would be the accompanying and fitting response of one who is receiving Christ as Lord. We are only thankful for what we receive. The life, or “walk,” that is fitting for one who has received Christ is a life of further receiving. They do not need to be tempted to find their significance, security, or identity from any other source but the one who is Lord over all.
From here Paul adds another aspect of walking in the Lord:
See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ. For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily, and you have been filled in him, who is the head of all rule and authority. Colossians 2:8–10 ESV
Paul highlights that our walk in Christ also involves not receiving from other sources for our life and identity. This will amount to being taken captive and being deceived. Paul is referring to spiritual and religious practices and ways of thinking that come out of a worldview based on “human tradition” and “elemental spirits of the world,” a phrase that probably refers to spiritual beings. What is conveyed here is a worldview, with human and demonic origins that are “not according to Christ.”
We can witness this today in our culture as well. There are always competing worldviews and ideologies that if followed will leave you empty and in bondage. Typically, these approaches to life demand that we become “achievers” instead of “receivers” when it comes to our own righteousness or “spirituality.” Instead of living by grace, we are to work our way forward by meeting the demands that someone, who typically does not have our best interest in mind, has placed on us. Paul makes it clear that if the “fullness of deity dwells bodily” in Christ, and we are “filled in him” then there is no further “fullness” that can be achieved. We have it all in Jesus. No need to look somewhere else.
And Paul adds that the one who fills us is none other than the “head of all rule and authority.” With that stroke of the pen, he denounces all who presume to think they can have some rule or authority over us. Jesus is our Lord and everyone else must take a knee. When someone is pressuring you to “obey” them or follow their teaching that is not consistent with walking in the Lord, you do not need to comply or even acknowledge such delusions. Christians often must resist that which the Lord is not giving.
Paul will now go further to demonstrate that there is nothing more needed than Christ:
In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead. And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross. He disarmed the rulers and authorities and put them to open shame, by triumphing over them in him. Colossians 2:11–15 ESV
Using both language of circumcision and baptism, Paul signifies how we “come to fullness” in Christ. This runs counter to any teaching that claims you must climb above the brokenness in our world and in yourself and find a way to ascend, on your own steam, to some higher spiritual plane. Our baptism is a baptism into the death and resurrection of Christ. In him, we find fullness on the basis of what Jesus did for us in his death and resurrection. He is the one who first descended into our death and then ascended in glorious resurrection.
And he didn’t do that as an example for us to follow. He did that in our flesh and blood. In faith, we receive his work on our behalf. He is the one who has forgiven and removed all our “trespasses” and has set the record straight. He has taken all that is broken, tainted, and distorted, and removed it by “nailing it to the cross.” That is where we look for setting right all our wrongs. In nailing our record of sin and death to the cross, God has “disarmed the rulers and authorities.” Not only that, but Jesus has also made a public spectacle of them, likened to the ancient Roman celebration of victory by parading prisoners of war through the city. Paul is writing in such a way as to highlight the complete foolishness of falling for the lies of these false teachers. Jesus has set us free to be free. No one has any claim on that freedom, no matter what clever, convincing, or even “righteous” rhetoric they may use.
Before concluding this section, Paul wants to address a more specific demand being expected of some in the church:
Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ. Let no one disqualify you, insisting on asceticism and worship of angels, going on in detail about visions, puffed up without reason by his sensuous mind, and not holding fast to the Head, from whom the whole body, nourished and knit together through its joints and ligaments, grows with a growth that is from God. Colossians 2:16–19 ESV
Paul admonishes his readers to be on guard against those who demand specific approaches to food, drink, or observing festivals, for the purpose of passing “judgment” on them and to “disqualify” them. They want to condemn those who do not jump through their own self-made and self-righteous hoops. They insist on self-abasement as well as angel worship and having visions. Paul locates this type of thinking as springing from one who is “puffed up without reason by his sensuous mind” because he ceased to hold “fast to the Head.” This is not the Christian worldview Paul is springing from. He certainly wants the believers in Colossae to discern the difference. Paul is guarding against the external cultural teachings inherit in the Greco-Roman culture, that has slipped into the Colossian church to persuade believers to pursue asceticism on one end of the spectrum or mysticism on the other end. Either way, the goal is to move people from receiving God’s grace in favor of achieving some high state of spirituality that would qualify them in the eyes of their accusers.
Paul’s final word in this passage serves to provide the antidote to the deluded false teachings that target the Church. Hold fast to Jesus. Paul emphasizes again the relationship that exists between Jesus as the Head and the Church as the body. As we hold fast to that reality, letting our roots grow down deeply in Christ and building on the firm foundation of his grace, we will be nourished and made whole leading to a “growth that is from God.”
This is a picture of a truly healthy church, one that discerns between what it means to belong to Christ and any ideas that run contrary to it. This discernment comes by way of returning over and over again to our Head, Jesus Christ, to receive his grace, and to being nourished and built up in him. This is walking “in him” as Paul exhorts. May we hear Paul’s words and hold fast to what we have been taught in God’s word, not succumbing to tantalizing ideologies of empty deceit, but discerning and denouncing all that claims a higher spirituality than what we have in Christ. Amen!
Andrew Torrance—Year C Proper 12
Listen to audio: https://cloud.gci.org/dl/GReverb/GR065-Torrance-YearC-Proper12.mp3
July 27, 2025 — Proper 12 in Ordinary Time
Colossians 2:6-15
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Program Transcript
Andrew Torrance—Year C Proper 12
Anthony: All right. We have one pericope left in the month, so let’s transition to it. It is Colossians 2:6–15. It is a Revised Common Lectionary passage for Proper 12 in Ordinary Time, July 27. Andrew, we’d be grateful if you’d read it.
Andrew: Yes, of course.
As you therefore have received Christ Jesus the Lord, continue to walk in him, 7 rooted and built up in him and established in the faith, just as you were taught, abounding in thanksgiving. 8 Watch out that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental principles of the world, and not according to Christ. 9 For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily, 10 and you have come to fullness in him, who is the head of every ruler and authority. 11 In him also you were circumcised with a spiritual circumcision, by the removal of the body of the flesh in the circumcision of Christ; 12 when you were buried with him in baptism, you were also raised with him through faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead. 13 And when you were dead in trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive together with him, when he forgave us all our trespasses, 14 erasing the record that stood against us with its legal demands. He set this aside, nailing it to the cross. 15 He disarmed the rulers and authorities and made a public example of them, triumphing over them in it.
Anthony: Hallelujah. Yeah. I’ve heard a few preachers say philosophy is to be avoided because it’s humanistic. And verse 8 is often referenced to make their point. And I wanted to ask this question of you because you’ve written a book that, which in part looks at the theological vision of Soren Kierkegaard, who was a philosopher. So, can theology and philosophy work together for good? And if so, how so?
Andrew: Yeah. Great. So, one of the key things that we need to note in this passage is that the problem isn’t simply philosophy, it is philosophy defined according to human tradition, …
Anthony: There you go.
Andrew: … according to the elemental principles of this world. Okay? So, philosophy is only a problem when its approach is grounded in a kind of naturalistic or an atheistic vision of the world, okay? … when it tries to become a its own form of theology or a theology, if you like … when it sees itself as a kind of human wisdom apart from God as being fundamental to think how we think about things.
But when philosophy is simply functioning as a discipline, that in which we think hard about the meaning of concepts, about how these concepts relate to another and how we can use these concepts to make sense of the world, to become part of our arguments to wrestle with moral questions, metaphysical questions, a whole host of other things that are part of the theological task, then it does not need to be a problem whatsoever. Indeed, my experience has been that I’ve been able to, yeah, really grow in my theology by engaging not only, I think, with Christian philosophers, but secular philosophers as well.
But what is really important is that we always recognize the fundamental role that theology plays in helping us to think about the philosophical task. So, philosophy always needs to be understood truly according to a theological framework. Okay, that means that when I’m doing, when I’m engaged in philosophy, I think that my approach to philosophy always needs to be a Christian approach. It always needs to, and therefore always needs to be theological in many respects.
And so, I think this has been the case. If there’s ways in which Christian philosophy actually can be seen as a form of theology. I think there’s maybe more going on in theology when we’re engaging with questions in church history, when we’re engaging in biblical studies, and when we’re doing … there’s a lot going on when we’re engaged in the theological task.
But I certainly think the one part of it can be the kind of work that we do with philosophy to develop our arguments, to understand the meaning of what we’re saying, yeah, in ways that can be more profound, really help us to be clear and more convincing about what we’re saying when we’re engaged in Christian theology.
Anthony: As you look across the landscape of philosophy, is there a stream of philosophy that concerns you the most, that is according to human tradition, that’s elemental, secular, atheological, as you said? Is there one that gives you more pause and concern than any other?
Andrew: It’s hard to just talk about a form of philosophy that is a particularly problematic. I think there’s ways in which different forms can have their own kinds of problems. I think in some ways, one of the approaches that concerns me, but I also think can be a very good thing, is certain approaches to say something like apologetics that suggests in various ways that in order for Christianity to be recognized to be true, we need to understand it in philosophical terms.
Anthony: I love it.
Andrew: There’s a real, there’s a real danger there that I think Christianity can become subject in certain approaches, and again, I definitely don’t want to generalize here, but there’s ways in which it can end up bending the knee, subjecting to authority that is primarily defined by human tradition, the elemental principles of this world.
And theology is testifying to something much greater. So, it can’t be kind of constricted with the mechanism of the boxes of human tradition. And it’s a danger when we’re doing apologetics that we try to defend the nature of Christianity in ways that means Christianity ends up being conformed to a particular narrow view of human understanding, which can cause it to become much smaller than it actually is.
Anthony: It seems to me, Andrew, that in all things we have to have the highest possible Christology. Whether it’s philosophy, thinking about the way we live our lives, the way that we engage our neighbor ecclesiology, the way we think about the churches, it all comes back to Jesus Christ, doesn’t it?
Andrew: Yeah. Yeah.
Anthony: If we want to end up in the right place. As simple as that.
Andrew: Yeah. And it’s very simple. I think sometimes when we talk a lot about God, I definitely think we always have to talk about God, but God is, can be such a … God is transcendent. God is hidden. God is beyond what we’re able to grasp with our own understanding. God is invisible and so when we’re given an image of that invisible God, it gives us something to which we can tone our eyes, which gives us a clarity in the midst of the uncertainty, which I think can just give us a confidence about who God is in relationship to creation that we wouldn’t otherwise be able to find.
Anthony: So, if you’re proclaiming this text to your congregation now in this moment, 2025, especially considering the geopolitical moment of uncertainty, what are you going to herald?
Andrew: Yeah, I’m going to herald Jesus Christ. The reality to be …
Anthony: There you go.
Andrew: … but not just Jesus Christ. As I’ve said a few times, we need to recognize that there’s no knowing Jesus Christ without works having to be stirred up in the world, and that the way in which you relate to the risen and ascended Jesus Christ is through the power of the Holy Spirit. We also don’t want to neglect the Father, God the Father who is overall, that we need to not just have a Christology, but also have a trinitarian ontology such that we understand who Jesus Christ is as a revelation, not just of the Son, but of the triune God …
Anthony: Yes.
Andrew: … in and through whom God is working in the world to draw creation into the love that God is in himself, in God’s sovereignty, in these three persons, in this communion of three persons. And when we experience that reality, our lives can begin to correspond to the coherence that undergirds all things, that holds all things together.
And when we encounter that transformative power in our lives, I really think that the ways in which the world is divided can be overcome, that we can be drawn together in a way that means that we won’t escape the tensions and the disagreements, but those will never overcome the ways in which we learn to love one another.
And I think that’s something to which the church really needs to give priority at this moment of time and needs to be seen as something that’s bringing unity, like coherence to the world, that is trying to bring people together rather than tear them apart.
And there will of course be times when the church has to offer a challenge. I think there’s a need now for it to be bearing witness to one who is going to unite us, bring us together, despite the ways in which society might divide us. I’d love to see the church being a bit clearer on this point.
Anthony: Do you have a moment where I can ask you one final theological question before we wrap up?
Andrew: Yeah. Yes, of course.
Anthony: … because you said something that really is interesting to me. It’s fascinating. I’ve often said that Christology is the tip of the spear of theology, because God has revealed himself in Jesus Christ. But you said something that’s really, I think, important to discuss. Is there a way for the church to focus so much on Jesus Christ in isolation, that it does any sort of detriment in terms of the way that we teach or think about Christian living where Jesus stands alone apart from the Father and the Spirit? Is there anything that concerns you in that way?
Andrew: Yeah, we definitely don’t want to be doing Christology without a trinitarian theology. And there are so many dangers when we separate the two and neglect trinitarian theology. We can end up with a kind of view of Jesus Christ, as someone who is just an impressive philosopher, a teacher of wisdom who lived and died, and some people thought rose again 2,000 years ago. And then we miss out on the bigger picture. And so, we don’t want the church to just be a community that is following the philosophy of Jesus Christ. We’re following someone who is alive for us today and has continued to reveal God to the world as the one who’s the ground of our very existence, the very end for which, in which we find our fulfillment. And so, the danger with bracketing out the trinitarian theology is that we just end up with a much smaller Jesus, a nearly human Jesus. And when we go there, we miss out on the bigger picture.
Anthony: Yeah. And it’s a beautiful picture of the triune God — Father, Son, and Spirit.
And I want to thank you for your time, Andrew. It’s been beautiful having this conversation with you. And friends, I want to leave you with this thought from Origen, one of the early church fathers. He said, “… for truly before Jesus, the scripture was water. But after Jesus, it has become wine for us.” So, as you drink in of holy scripture, may the Spirit mediate and may you be filled with the type of Spirit that leads you to intimacy with God.
I want to thank our team that makes this podcast possible. Reuel Enerio, Elizabeth Mullins, Michelle Hartman. It’s such a joy to work with these people who make all of this come together. And Andrew, again, thank you for your wisdom and insights of scripture as revealed in Jesus Christ. And as our tradition, we’d love for you to say a word of prayer for us as we close.
Andrew: Yes. Oh, let’s pray.
Heavenly Father, we thank you for creating us to be so much more than we could ever be in and of ourselves, to become far more than we could ever imagine ourselves to be on our own, but to be people that are called to be united with you, to be people transformed by your grace and called of your glorious purpose as it is disclosed and in the person of Jesus Christ.
And Lord, we thank you for rescuing us from the darkness. And for drawing us into the kingdom of your beloved Son, not just as a reality to anticipate when you die, but to a reality that we can live into today to experience the reality of redemption, to experience the forgiveness of sins every day in this world, so that we might be a light that could communicate this joy, this glory to the world.
And so, Lord, to do this, we just ask that you would send your Spirit to fill us with the knowledge of your will, to awaken us to wisdom and understanding, and by the power of your Holy Spirit, Lord, be strengthened for us to walk in a manner that is worthy of you, to bear fruit with every good work, to grow deeper in our knowledge of who you are, and through that to understand more faithfully who we are all as witnesses to you and, Lord, just be asked that you’d root us in the hope of your glory, that Christ would be within us, so that we could reveal Christ to the world. Draw us close to you, Lord, that we might faithfully proclaim your wisdom, your grace, and your love to the world that so desperately needs it. We ask all these things in Jesus’ name. Amen.
Anthony: Amen.
Program Transcript
Andrew Torrance—Year C Proper 12
Anthony: All right. We have one pericope left in the month, so let’s transition to it. It is Colossians 2:6–15. It is a Revised Common Lectionary passage for Proper 12 in Ordinary Time, July 27. Andrew, we’d be grateful if you’d read it.
Andrew: Yes, of course.
As you therefore have received Christ Jesus the Lord, continue to walk in him, 7 rooted and built up in him and established in the faith, just as you were taught, abounding in thanksgiving. 8 Watch out that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental principles of the world, and not according to Christ. 9 For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily, 10 and you have come to fullness in him, who is the head of every ruler and authority. 11 In him also you were circumcised with a spiritual circumcision, by the removal of the body of the flesh in the circumcision of Christ; 12 when you were buried with him in baptism, you were also raised with him through faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead. 13 And when you were dead in trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive together with him, when he forgave us all our trespasses, 14 erasing the record that stood against us with its legal demands. He set this aside, nailing it to the cross. 15 He disarmed the rulers and authorities and made a public example of them, triumphing over them in it.
Anthony: Hallelujah. Yeah. I’ve heard a few preachers say philosophy is to be avoided because it’s humanistic. And verse 8 is often referenced to make their point. And I wanted to ask this question of you because you’ve written a book that, which in part looks at the theological vision of Soren Kierkegaard, who was a philosopher. So, can theology and philosophy work together for good? And if so, how so?
Andrew: Yeah. Great. So, one of the key things that we need to note in this passage is that the problem isn’t simply philosophy, it is philosophy defined according to human tradition, …
Anthony: There you go.
Andrew: … according to the elemental principles of this world. Okay? So, philosophy is only a problem when its approach is grounded in a kind of naturalistic or an atheistic vision of the world, okay? … when it tries to become a its own form of theology or a theology, if you like … when it sees itself as a kind of human wisdom apart from God as being fundamental to think how we think about things.
But when philosophy is simply functioning as a discipline, that in which we think hard about the meaning of concepts, about how these concepts relate to another and how we can use these concepts to make sense of the world, to become part of our arguments to wrestle with moral questions, metaphysical questions, a whole host of other things that are part of the theological task, then it does not need to be a problem whatsoever. Indeed, my experience has been that I’ve been able to, yeah, really grow in my theology by engaging not only, I think, with Christian philosophers, but secular philosophers as well.
But what is really important is that we always recognize the fundamental role that theology plays in helping us to think about the philosophical task. So, philosophy always needs to be understood truly according to a theological framework. Okay, that means that when I’m doing, when I’m engaged in philosophy, I think that my approach to philosophy always needs to be a Christian approach. It always needs to, and therefore always needs to be theological in many respects.
And so, I think this has been the case. If there’s ways in which Christian philosophy actually can be seen as a form of theology. I think there’s maybe more going on in theology when we’re engaging with questions in church history, when we’re engaging in biblical studies, and when we’re doing … there’s a lot going on when we’re engaged in the theological task.
But I certainly think the one part of it can be the kind of work that we do with philosophy to develop our arguments, to understand the meaning of what we’re saying, yeah, in ways that can be more profound, really help us to be clear and more convincing about what we’re saying when we’re engaged in Christian theology.
Anthony: As you look across the landscape of philosophy, is there a stream of philosophy that concerns you the most, that is according to human tradition, that’s elemental, secular, atheological, as you said? Is there one that gives you more pause and concern than any other?
Andrew: It’s hard to just talk about a form of philosophy that is a particularly problematic. I think there’s ways in which different forms can have their own kinds of problems. I think in some ways, one of the approaches that concerns me, but I also think can be a very good thing, is certain approaches to say something like apologetics that suggests in various ways that in order for Christianity to be recognized to be true, we need to understand it in philosophical terms.
Anthony: I love it.
Andrew: There’s a real, there’s a real danger there that I think Christianity can become subject in certain approaches, and again, I definitely don’t want to generalize here, but there’s ways in which it can end up bending the knee, subjecting to authority that is primarily defined by human tradition, the elemental principles of this world.
And theology is testifying to something much greater. So, it can’t be kind of constricted with the mechanism of the boxes of human tradition. And it’s a danger when we’re doing apologetics that we try to defend the nature of Christianity in ways that means Christianity ends up being conformed to a particular narrow view of human understanding, which can cause it to become much smaller than it actually is.
Anthony: It seems to me, Andrew, that in all things we have to have the highest possible Christology. Whether it’s philosophy, thinking about the way we live our lives, the way that we engage our neighbor ecclesiology, the way we think about the churches, it all comes back to Jesus Christ, doesn’t it?
Andrew: Yeah. Yeah.
Anthony: If we want to end up in the right place. As simple as that.
Andrew: Yeah. And it’s very simple. I think sometimes when we talk a lot about God, I definitely think we always have to talk about God, but God is, can be such a … God is transcendent. God is hidden. God is beyond what we’re able to grasp with our own understanding. God is invisible and so when we’re given an image of that invisible God, it gives us something to which we can tone our eyes, which gives us a clarity in the midst of the uncertainty, which I think can just give us a confidence about who God is in relationship to creation that we wouldn’t otherwise be able to find.
Anthony: So, if you’re proclaiming this text to your congregation now in this moment, 2025, especially considering the geopolitical moment of uncertainty, what are you going to herald?
Andrew: Yeah, I’m going to herald Jesus Christ. The reality to be …
Anthony: There you go.
Andrew: … but not just Jesus Christ. As I’ve said a few times, we need to recognize that there’s no knowing Jesus Christ without works having to be stirred up in the world, and that the way in which you relate to the risen and ascended Jesus Christ is through the power of the Holy Spirit. We also don’t want to neglect the Father, God the Father who is overall, that we need to not just have a Christology, but also have a trinitarian ontology such that we understand who Jesus Christ is as a revelation, not just of the Son, but of the triune God …
Anthony: Yes.
Andrew: … in and through whom God is working in the world to draw creation into the love that God is in himself, in God’s sovereignty, in these three persons, in this communion of three persons. And when we experience that reality, our lives can begin to correspond to the coherence that undergirds all things, that holds all things together.
And when we encounter that transformative power in our lives, I really think that the ways in which the world is divided can be overcome, that we can be drawn together in a way that means that we won’t escape the tensions and the disagreements, but those will never overcome the ways in which we learn to love one another.
And I think that’s something to which the church really needs to give priority at this moment of time and needs to be seen as something that’s bringing unity, like coherence to the world, that is trying to bring people together rather than tear them apart.
And there will of course be times when the church has to offer a challenge. I think there’s a need now for it to be bearing witness to one who is going to unite us, bring us together, despite the ways in which society might divide us. I’d love to see the church being a bit clearer on this point.
Anthony: Do you have a moment where I can ask you one final theological question before we wrap up?
Andrew: Yeah. Yes, of course.
Anthony: … because you said something that really is interesting to me. It’s fascinating. I’ve often said that Christology is the tip of the spear of theology, because God has revealed himself in Jesus Christ. But you said something that’s really, I think, important to discuss. Is there a way for the church to focus so much on Jesus Christ in isolation, that it does any sort of detriment in terms of the way that we teach or think about Christian living where Jesus stands alone apart from the Father and the Spirit? Is there anything that concerns you in that way?
Andrew: Yeah, we definitely don’t want to be doing Christology without a trinitarian theology. And there are so many dangers when we separate the two and neglect trinitarian theology. We can end up with a kind of view of Jesus Christ, as someone who is just an impressive philosopher, a teacher of wisdom who lived and died, and some people thought rose again 2,000 years ago. And then we miss out on the bigger picture. And so, we don’t want the church to just be a community that is following the philosophy of Jesus Christ. We’re following someone who is alive for us today and has continued to reveal God to the world as the one who’s the ground of our very existence, the very end for which, in which we find our fulfillment. And so, the danger with bracketing out the trinitarian theology is that we just end up with a much smaller Jesus, a nearly human Jesus. And when we go there, we miss out on the bigger picture.
Anthony: Yeah. And it’s a beautiful picture of the triune God — Father, Son, and Spirit.
And I want to thank you for your time, Andrew. It’s been beautiful having this conversation with you. And friends, I want to leave you with this thought from Origen, one of the early church fathers. He said, “… for truly before Jesus, the scripture was water. But after Jesus, it has become wine for us.” So, as you drink in of holy scripture, may the Spirit mediate and may you be filled with the type of Spirit that leads you to intimacy with God.
I want to thank our team that makes this podcast possible. Reuel Enerio, Elizabeth Mullins, Michelle Hartman. It’s such a joy to work with these people who make all of this come together. And Andrew, again, thank you for your wisdom and insights of scripture as revealed in Jesus Christ. And as our tradition, we’d love for you to say a word of prayer for us as we close.
Andrew: Yes. Oh, let’s pray.
Heavenly Father, we thank you for creating us to be so much more than we could ever be in and of ourselves, to become far more than we could ever imagine ourselves to be on our own, but to be people that are called to be united with you, to be people transformed by your grace and called of your glorious purpose as it is disclosed and in the person of Jesus Christ.
And Lord, we thank you for rescuing us from the darkness. And for drawing us into the kingdom of your beloved Son, not just as a reality to anticipate when you die, but to a reality that we can live into today to experience the reality of redemption, to experience the forgiveness of sins every day in this world, so that we might be a light that could communicate this joy, this glory to the world.
And so, Lord, to do this, we just ask that you would send your Spirit to fill us with the knowledge of your will, to awaken us to wisdom and understanding, and by the power of your Holy Spirit, Lord, be strengthened for us to walk in a manner that is worthy of you, to bear fruit with every good work, to grow deeper in our knowledge of who you are, and through that to understand more faithfully who we are all as witnesses to you and, Lord, just be asked that you’d root us in the hope of your glory, that Christ would be within us, so that we could reveal Christ to the world. Draw us close to you, Lord, that we might faithfully proclaim your wisdom, your grace, and your love to the world that so desperately needs it. We ask all these things in Jesus’ name. Amen.
Anthony: Amen.
Small Group Discussion Questions
- Can you think of any “human traditions” or worldviews that if followed will leave you empty and in bondage? Have you seen any of these false teachings slipping into the Church?
- Does being reminded that we have received Christ Jesus as the Lord help guard against false teachings?
- Does knowing that the full deity dwells in Jesus guard against false teachings that promise some form of fullness?
- From the sermon, discuss the difference between living a life of achieving vs. receiving.
- Can you think of any modern-day examples of people who “pass judgement” on the Church?
- What are ways the Church can “hold fast to the Head” in order to grow healthy?
