November 24, 2024 — Reign of Christ Sunday

Anthony: Friends, we’re in the homestretch. We’re at our final pericope of the month. It’s Revelation 1:4-8. It is a Revised Common Lectionary passage for Reign of Christ Sunday, which is on November 24. Jon, read it for us, please.

Jon: Sure.

John to the seven churches that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace from him who is and who was and who is to come and from the seven spirits who are before his throne, ⁵ and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To him who loves us and freed us from our sins by his blood ⁶ and made us a kingdom, priests serving his God and Father, to him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen. ⁷ Look! He is coming with the clouds; every eye will see him, even those who pierced him, and all the tribes of the earth will wail on account of him. So it is to be. Amen. ⁸ “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.

Anthony: Amen. And amen. So, if you were preaching this passage to a congregation, your congregation, what would be the focus of your proclamation?

Jon: Yeah, I’ve been thinking about this a lot. I think I would center in on verse 5. That’s the crux of what I would want to teach about. Of course this could change. I tend to not be too rigid in terms of preparation when I am preaching because sometimes things change. Something’s going on in the community that would change the focus that I would put on it, a certain text, sometimes world events would, all of that.

But just strictly for this exercise, I think verse 5 with the “faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To him who loves us and freed us from our sins by his blood.”

I think getting into the blood stuff here could be an interesting sermon. Because this is a way to shift how we think about blood because if people have been schooled in this negative understanding of what blood is, that it’s death, that it’s judgment, that it’s this bad, ultimately bad thing — honing in on that blood is actually liberative. What’s going on there is freeing us.

It’s not something that happens to Christ instead of us, right? But that what Christ does as our forerunner, through his blood, is free us. And digging into what that freedom could look like for the community, I think that would be a starting point for me, to think about how to preach this to a congregation

Anthony: As I’m rereading verse 5, thinking of it as a crux. There’s so much good news shoehorned in there. He is the faithful witness. He is the faithful forerunner, firstborn. He is the faithful ruler. We have so many bad rulers. He’s the faithful one. He loves us. And he doesn’t hold us captive. He freed us. There’s just so much to unearth there in a proclamation heralding of the gospel.

And that really does tie into the question I wanted to ask you next. It’s in terms of liturgical calendar, it’s known as Reign of Christ Sunday or Christ the King Sunday. And we’re recording this episode in September. We’ve got a national presidential election coming up in the U.S.

Just last night, there was a presidential debate. And so, for those listening, prior to that national election, how might the reign of Christ inform us about politics in our lives? Here’s a big one: the way we view people who vote differently than we do? And even the outcome of the election?

I just because that’s on our minds. And you even talked about you adapt the message sometimes. Always from the text, but how it informs what’s happening around us. So, what would you have to say about this?

Jon: All right. So, you want me to get into this? With hesitation, I will, but I’m not really going to beat around the bush here.

I am both sick of Christian nationalist agendas where it becomes a kind of civic religion, right? I think I can be clear about that.

And I think just as much as I am, the sort of political quietism, or even kind of fideism where it becomes balkanized that results from what’s become a popular Christian slogan: Jesus is Lord; therefore, Caesar is not. Okay, that’s true. Jesus is Lord. The kingdoms of the world are not the Lord in the same way that Christ is. Caesar’s not God. Our presidential candidates aren’t God.

But the payoff, I think, of this other option — not Christian nationalism, but this sort of “Oh, Jesus is Lord, therefore Caesar is not; I can step back a little bit and not worry too much about the politics of the world because God’s in charge. Christ is in charge,” which is true. But it can take us in a couple different directions that worry me a bit. It can lead to one assuming this sort of “both side-ism,” which is different from loving your neighbor. It’s just saying that all these options are equally true or good or understandable.

And this “both sided-ism” is what Jesus really wants. Which tends to just re-inscribe a certain kind of — I mean this in a nonpartisan way, it leads to a sort of re-inscribing of conservatism in a way that says things can’t really change. Okay. That is, Jesus just looks like the sort of average citizen of a modern liberal democracy. Okay.

Secondly, it can lead to a kind of superiority complex, I think, where engagement in real political action in this world, can be looked down on because what really matters is this immaterial kingdom of God; what really matters is that. So, we don’t actually need to concern ourselves with real material realities.

I think that can happen, but we can trick ourselves into thinking that’s what the gospel is about. What I want to alert us to and point us to, in my witness is: what does Jesus, this high priest, talk about all over the Gospels? He talks about money. He talks about material realities of people. He talks about marginalized people. He talks about the poor. If our politics aren’t reflecting a basic concern for the material realities of ourselves and our neighbors, we’re not going to see Jesus there.

Let me say that again, because I really want to make this clear. If our politics aren’t reflecting a basic concern for the material realities of our neighbors, we’re not going to see Jesus there — because that’s what Jesus is concerned with. Always test our political thinking and action in the light of Christ and his concern for the poor and the oppressed.

Now this can open up different options for you. It’s not just saying, Oh, you have to be a socialist to be a follower of Christ, which some people say. I have no time for that either. But what Jesus alerts us to is being concerned with the material realities, the economic realities, the family realities of our neighbors. That needs to drive our political thinking!

We can disagree about how that works out. But if there’s something that occludes, if there’s a political position, or policy, or running platform, that occludes that way of thinking about things, I can’t, in good conscience, be a part of that. I can’t, because I’m trying to get everything — I’m trying to do what Paul would say, to bring everything captive, every thought, even political thought, captive to Christ.

So that’s a starting point. I don’t want to tell people how to vote, any of that sort of stuff, but that’s the starting point, I think.

Now in terms of relating to people who disagree with you, this is tricky, right? I have family members who disagree with me on politics. I have friends who disagree with me on political stuff. What’s important there is you don’t always have to talk about that stuff with them. Normally, the arguments tend to be online or like when you’re not around the person in person, and you’re talking to them.

But when you do engage with someone, you should do so out of a Christ-like way. We have the mind of Christ. So how does Christ interact with people he disagrees with? He can get angry. He can be pretty harsh, but he never gives up or lets go of someone else just because they disagree with him. Anger is okay.

Anthony: That’s right. And it’s one of the reasons I don’t engage on social media in the political world and other controversial topics because it’s not relational. I mean it can be; I understand that but there are massive limitations.

And it’s amazing how people can bow up when they’re not face to face with you.  I’ve heard people call them Twitter muscles, where you just coming in hard and strong about a subject, but it’s meant to be in relationship, always.

Jon: So, I would say in terms of disagreements, treat it like any other sort of disagreement. The way to do that is if you have a relationship of trust with someone, you can be real with them about how you’re feeling and about how much you disagree with them. And it can be tense, and it’s going to be because you disagree, probably fundamentally about certain things in politics, right?

But it’s knowing that you’re in a relationship of trust with them, that they constitute who you are, as well, even if you disagree, and you constitute who they are. Love is a part of that too, a huge part.

I wanted to try to be as precise as I could, not beat around the bush, but also bring this back to how we need to be thinking about this in the light of Christ. Always.

Anthony: Absolutely and I appreciate you going on this thought journey with me because you can’t escape it. The last few national elections, it’s been tough in churches. It’s been very tough on pastors because they’re trying to hold things together when people have really different viewpoints.

And my thinking on it, and this is a very general statement, I really want to be conservative on the traditions and orthodoxy, that we hold fast to our confession of Christ, and I want to be liberal in love.

Like you said, Jesus’ work is comprehensive, and it informs everything that we do, and we see and how we act. As we look on in this passage, thanks be to God. I hear what you’re saying, even as he is Lord, it doesn’t mean that there’s not an impact in our day to day living.

But thanks be to God that he is out in the Alpha and the Omega. He’s the end. He’s the telos. And it makes me think of what Julian Norwich said, “The end is good. So, if it’s not good, it’s not the end.” And as painful as it is right now, and as difficult as these conversations are, and I’m not trying to do escapism here, just thanks be to God that he is the king.

Jon: And because that should frame how we’re thinking about these things, that ultimate reality. It doesn’t give us a cop out. It frames it, and it should lead us to engaging in the best possible way that we can as Christians.

Anthony: Yeah. Amen. And amen.

Hey man, we’re just meeting for the first time. I really like you.

Jon: I like you, too.

Anthony: I’m thankful for you. I feel so grateful for this conversation. So, thanks for saying yes to something you didn’t really know much about, this podcast. It’s been just an enriching conversation, and I hope that you found joy in the process.

And I also want to thank our team that makes this podcast possible. Reuel Enerio, our podcast producer, the editor, the one that makes it all sound good. Elizabeth Mullins, the transcriber who captures the fact that I said “Safety Dance” was the song of choice. Oh, I can’t believe that’s going to be documented to live in infamy.

Jon: Heck yeah. And that rules; you should just stand by it, man.

Anthony: Oh man, I just listened to it recently and that’s why it came to my mind. It’s synthesized. I just feel horrible about that.

And then Michelle Hartman, who’s our leader of the team. She does such a great job. Those. So, thank you, one and all, for your efforts.

And Jon, again, thank you for being here. As is our tradition on Gospel Reverb, we end with prayer. So, if you would, pray for our listening audience.

Jon: Absolutely.

Gracious God, thank you for this time to spend with Anthony and to talk about these lectionary texts, to go through them. We ask that what has been said is pleasing to you, and we trust that you intercede for us, and that you have been present with us. Even through these microphones, through our computers, through the internet, we trust that you’re present.

And we are so thankful that you have provided us with a wonderful space and platform to be able to talk to one another about important ideas. And namely about the most important thing, which is Jesus Christ. The one through whom you revealed yourself most fully. The one who never gives up or lets go of anybody ever.

It’s irrevocable, your commitment to us. And we thank you for that. It’s the most precious gift that you are present with us in him. I also pray for those listening to this, that through our conversation, that you would speak a good word to them and to comfort them, to challenge them and to bring them deeper into the truth of God — that is your Son, Jesus Christ. And it’s in his name we pray. Amen.