Welcome to this week’s episode, a special rerun from our Speaking of Life archive. We hope you find its timeless message as meaningful today as it was when it was first shared.
Watch video on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rS4RzZMrao
Program Transcript
Speaking Of Life 3046 | The Midas Touch
Jeff Broadnax
In Greek mythology, Midas was a king who was obsessed with riches. After doing a good deed for the god Dionysus, King Midas was granted whatever he wished as a reward. The king asked for everything he touched to turn to gold, and his wish was granted. King Midas was overjoyed! He touched sticks, rocks, flowers. All of them turned to solid gold. He went to his palace and ordered a feast to celebrate his good fortune. That’s when he realized his mistake. Every time he tried to put something in his mouth, it would turn to gold. In the myth, King Midas died of starvation. His love of wealth cost him his life. In the book of Mark, we are introduced to another man with an unhealthy attachment to riches:
As Jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and fell on his knees before him. “Good teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?” “Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good — except God alone. You know the commandments: ‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, you shall not defraud, honor your father and mother.'” “Teacher,” he declared, “all these I have kept since I was a boy.” Jesus looked at him and loved him. “One thing you lack,” he said. “Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” At this the man’s face fell. He went away sad, because he had great wealth.
Mark 10:17-22
In the verses that follow, Jesus does not say it is wrong to have riches. However, he does say that loving riches is wrong. Our possessions can become idols to us — things that get in the way of our relationship with God. This was the man’s problem. He was so entangled by his stuff that he missed an opportunity to be a disciple of Jesus Christ. He traded an eternal relationship with Christ for things that will fade away.
In this encounter, riches are a metaphor for anything we value above God. Some of us choose to work unnecessarily long hours just to earn confirmation through success. This is often at the cost of time with those most important to us: God, our family, and friends. Some of us are tied to our social media affirmations trying to get the most likes and views instead of getting our worth and value from God. All of these scenarios are forms of idolatry because they get in the way of our relationship with God and other people. Therefore, we should be willing to give up anything that gets between us and Jesus.
The good news is that whatever we give up for Jesus is never really lost. The sacrifices we make for him today are repaid with interest in eternity. Out of an abundance of love, God gives us true riches like joy, peace, and grace. These things are worth far more than gold and silver. We should be willing to set aside any wealth of this world for the eternal riches that are in Jesus Christ.
Jim Elliot wrote, “He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose.” In Christ, we are already rich with blessings. Let us not let the things of this world distract us from all we have in Jesus.
I am Jeff Broadnax, Speaking of Life.
Program Transcript
Speaking Of Life 3046 | The Midas Touch
Jeff Broadnax
In Greek mythology, Midas was a king who was obsessed with riches. After doing a good deed for the god Dionysus, King Midas was granted whatever he wished as a reward. The king asked for everything he touched to turn to gold, and his wish was granted. King Midas was overjoyed! He touched sticks, rocks, flowers. All of them turned to solid gold. He went to his palace and ordered a feast to celebrate his good fortune. That’s when he realized his mistake. Every time he tried to put something in his mouth, it would turn to gold. In the myth, King Midas died of starvation. His love of wealth cost him his life. In the book of Mark, we are introduced to another man with an unhealthy attachment to riches:
As Jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and fell on his knees before him. “Good teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?” “Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good — except God alone. You know the commandments: ‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, you shall not defraud, honor your father and mother.'” “Teacher,” he declared, “all these I have kept since I was a boy.” Jesus looked at him and loved him. “One thing you lack,” he said. “Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” At this the man’s face fell. He went away sad, because he had great wealth.
Mark 10:17-22
In the verses that follow, Jesus does not say it is wrong to have riches. However, he does say that loving riches is wrong. Our possessions can become idols to us — things that get in the way of our relationship with God. This was the man’s problem. He was so entangled by his stuff that he missed an opportunity to be a disciple of Jesus Christ. He traded an eternal relationship with Christ for things that will fade away.
In this encounter, riches are a metaphor for anything we value above God. Some of us choose to work unnecessarily long hours just to earn confirmation through success. This is often at the cost of time with those most important to us: God, our family, and friends. Some of us are tied to our social media affirmations trying to get the most likes and views instead of getting our worth and value from God. All of these scenarios are forms of idolatry because they get in the way of our relationship with God and other people. Therefore, we should be willing to give up anything that gets between us and Jesus.
The good news is that whatever we give up for Jesus is never really lost. The sacrifices we make for him today are repaid with interest in eternity. Out of an abundance of love, God gives us true riches like joy, peace, and grace. These things are worth far more than gold and silver. We should be willing to set aside any wealth of this world for the eternal riches that are in Jesus Christ.
Jim Elliot wrote, “He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose.” In Christ, we are already rich with blessings. Let us not let the things of this world distract us from all we have in Jesus.
I am Jeff Broadnax, Speaking of Life.
Psalm 22:1-15 · Job 23:1-9, 16-17 · Hebrews 4:12-16 · Mark 10:17-31
This week’s theme is bold approaches. Is God really that loving, that good, to embrace us in our mess? Are we bold enough to try living in our integrity, without shame, even when we know our best efforts to love others fall short? Are we really lovable in our imperfection? Our call to worship, Psalm 22, is a psalm of vulnerability and need. It asks, “Where are you, God?” in the middle of the psalmist’s dark night. Job’s story continues with his honest complaints against God, and it makes us wonder if we would be so bold to express our anger and disappointment with God. Mark 10 recounts the encounter Jesus had with a very good man, one who had kept all the commandments and thought he was near perfect. The man was discouraged, though, when Jesus saw through his good works and with loving, laser focus, named the one area of struggle he had. Our sermon text, Hebrews 4:12-16, encourages us to be unafraid of showing all of ourselves to our God, who already knows everything about us.
Naked and Unafraid
Hebrews 4:12-16 (NRSVUE)
Forbes magazine reports in its December 2022 Health column about the most common types of dreams people have while sleeping. One of them is discovering that you’re naked or in your underclothes in public. According to a 2020 sleep survey by Amerisleep, dreams of being naked or exposed in public make up about 12 percent of all dreams. In this type of dream, the dreamer is upset and anxious about being exposed, but the other people in the dream don’t seem to notice or care. The interpretation of this dream is that you’re feeling embarrassed or vulnerable in your daily life.
Being vulnerable in American culture is often viewed as being weak. But social researcher Dr. Brene [pronounced bren-NAY, rhymes with René] Brown has studied vulnerability and shame, and she says, “Vulnerability is not winning or losing; it’s having the courage to show up and be seen when we have no control over the outcome.”
Our sermon text from Hebrews 4 encourages us to be vulnerable, open, and honest with God, who understands our human frailties through Jesus the Son. Let’s read together Hebrews 4:12-16. Read More
The context of Hebrews 4:12-16
We can think of Hebrews 4:12-13 as concluding the argument made in Hebrews 3:7-4:11 about people’s struggle with unbelief and that God came to give us his rest, which we find in Jesus. Hebrews 4:12 is often quoted by itself, but it can be interpreted in a negative or threatening manner when taken out of the context in this chapter or even out of the context of the book of Hebrews with its emphasis on Jesus Christ as our great high priest.
Verses 14-16 begin a longer argument for Jesus as our high priest and the encouragement that we should gain from this. This focus on why Jesus is our high priest and why that is so good for us runs through Hebrews chapter 10.
Hebrews 4:12-13: What is the “word of God” anyway?
Indeed, the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing until it divides soul from spirit, joints from marrow; it is able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart. And before him no creature is hidden, but all are naked and laid bare to the eyes of the one to whom we must render an account. (Hebrews 4:12-13, NRSVUE)
Many scholars interpret “the word of God” to mean the Scriptures. Let’s also consider that the “word of God” is “living and active,” and therefore encompassing more of the human experience than what was recorded more than 2000 years ago. Jesus is the living Word, and the Holy Spirit speaks the word into us today.
Understanding the culture and audience to whom the book was written is critical in understanding the principles and encouragement that apply to us today. Consider that families and friends surely pressured the Jewish converts. New Jewish believers may have also longed for the elaborate rituals of the temple and the culturally rich furnishings of their synagogues. Since Christians didn’t own buildings for worship in those days, they met in the homes of fellow Christians. Compared to their former Jewish styles of worship, Christian worship certainly would appear meager. Luke tells us that “a great company of the priests were obedient to the faith” (Acts 6:7). Would they expect to continue in a teaching or leadership capacity, or would Jewish converts expect them to step forward to fill such roles after conversion?
Consider these ways that the “word of God” comes to human beings, convicts them of shortcomings, comforts them, and shares in the delight of being human:
- The Holy Spirit dwelling within us: The Holy Spirit “guide[s] us into all the truth” (John 16:13), yet we often distrust the still, small voice within that speaks kindly and patiently, offering freedom and joy rather than guilt or constraint. Contemplative practices, such as centering prayer and meditation, can be useful in quieting ourselves to tune into the Holy Spirit in a more receptive way.
- Scripture: How many times have you read a passage of scripture, and it jumps out at you as if it was the first time you saw it? You may have read it dozens of times, but suddenly it applies to something you are facing or dealing with or needing an answer to. Often, just reading a passage in another translation or interpretation sheds light on something we hadn’t previously seen or understood. We do need to be aware that some have narrowed the definition of the “word of God” to their own choice interpretation of the Bible. And, as mentioned before, we must approach the Bible first from its literary context, asking questions about what certain verses might mean to an ancient, agrarian, patriarchal society before we assume that the admonitions offered apply in the same way to our 21st century, technological world.
There are several sources outside the Bible that can also enlarge our understanding of the triune God. Just as the Bible is “living and active” when we read it with an open mind and heart to discern and observe God’s love and interaction with different cultures, we begin to see God’s living word in action in areas of life and literature we may not have considered before.
- Nature: Nature is another example of the “living word” that speaks to God’s glory without using words. Human beings tend to focus on language, often obsessing on intricate turns of phrase, which keeps our interactions and worship of God all in our minds. Nature gives us the opportunity to see and worship God through his creation. If you’ve ever witnessed a beautiful sunrise or sunset, you probably remember feeling pierced through, your “soul from spirit, joints from marrow” (Hebrew 4:12). Nature nourishes us with a sense of God’s nearness and a quiet stillness we don’t find when we’re caught up in language.
- Conversations with others: You might be familiar with the proverb that speaks of hearing truth from others.
Iron sharpens iron, and one person sharpens the wits of another. (Proverbs 27:17, NRSVUE)
We must thoughtfully evaluate the conversations we have with others, seeking the wisdom they might offer, or the insights they have had about our true identity in Christ and the mysteries of God, keeping in mind our tendency to focus only on those ideas that we are familiar with and confirm our closely held beliefs. This is called confirmation bias, where we gravitate toward those people and sources of information that confirm what we already think rather than challenge us. You may have heard people talk about someone difficult in their life, saying, “He was my best teacher.” Dealing with those who have different personalities, opinions, and life experiences can be difficult, but if we consider them as another method or “living word” God uses to reach us, we can begin to approach our interactions with a sense of curiosity rather than dread or even anger. We can ask ourselves, “What can I learn from this person about myself, my triggers, or other areas of life I would prefer not to look at?”
Consider reading this poem by Alison Luterman, “Because Even the Word Obstacle Is An Obstacle”
- Jesus Christ: Known as the Word of God in John 1:1, Jesus identifies with our human existence. He lived in a human body and was tempted as we are (Hebrews 4:15), so he understands our limitations. We can’t fool him, nor should we want to. If anyone can see our struggles and say, “Yep, I’ve been there,” it’s Jesus.
Through our interactions with the Holy Spirit, scripture and other literature, nature, other people, and Jesus, we are uncovered, our imperfections and eccentricities exposed. Hebrews 4:13 says that we “are naked and laid bare to the eyes of the one to whom we must render an account.” But Hebrews 4 goes on to elaborate why we have no reason to fear: because of Jesus’ standing as our high priest.
Hebrews 4:14-16: Why can we be authentic and vulnerable without fear?
Since, then, we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus, the Son of God, let us hold fast to our confession. For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who in every respect has been tested as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore approach the throne of grace with boldness, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need. (Hebrews 4:14-16, NRSVUE)
The “one to whom we must render an account” already knows and understands the perils of living in a human body. As our high priest, Jesus knows how hard life as a human being can be, and through the cross, he demonstrated that he is able to take our worst and transform it. We don’t have anything to hide from Jesus; he knows and understands us. He possesses empathy because of the Incarnation and extends grace and mercy without measure. Through the Son’s empathy, we are brought into intimate fellowship with the Father and Holy Spirit.
Barclay’s Commentary explains why this empathy was such a radical idea:
The Jews had their different God; the Stoics, their feelingless gods; the Epicureans, their completely detached gods. Into that world of thought came the Christian religion with its incredible conception of a God who had deliberately undergone every human experience. Plutarch, one of the most religious of the Greeks, declared that it was blasphemous to involve God in the affairs of this world. Christianity depicted God not so much involved as identified with the suffering of this world. It is almost impossible for us to realize the revolution that Christianity brought about in men’s relationship to God. For century after century they had been confronted with the idea of the untouchable God; and now they discovered one who had gone through all that man must go through. (Barclay’s Daily Study Bible, NT)
Hebrews 4:12-16 shows us that God is constantly reaching out for us, seeking to expose our inner thoughts through the many avenues of the “living and active word.” We don’t need to fear the exposure of our vulnerabilities. The imagery of the sword is not to kill us, but as a surgical tool to penetrate and expose to God our will and sentiments.
We are instructed to “draw near with boldness (Greek: parresia) to the throne of grace” (v. 16a). The Greek word parresia is a combination of two words, pas (all) and rhesis (speaking). Literally we are encouraged to “pray with all freedom in speaking.” Our vulnerabilities are a feature of our humanity, one that our high priest, Jesus, fully understands and identifies with. We are reminded of Psalm 139:
Where can I go from your Spirit? Or where can I flee from your presence?. . . If I say, “Surely the darkness shall cover me, and night wraps itself around me, . . . even the darkness is not dark to you; the night is as bright as the day, . . . (Psalm 139:7, 11,12a NRSVUE).
Whether those worries about vulnerability come through our dreams or if we’re aware of them in our daily lives, we can be sure that our God is willing to extend grace and mercy to draw us near to his divine presence.
Call to Action: This week, try spending some time in nature, whether it is an outdoor walk or simply studying a plant or flower. Notice the calming effect that comes from connecting with God through creation. Consider reading a passage of scripture from a Bible interpretation such as The Message. Alternatively, try to approach a difficult interaction with someone with an attitude of curiosity, looking for what God might be showing you about yourself or others through them.
For Reference:
Brown, Brene. Rising Strong: How the Ability to Reset Transforms the Way We Live, Love, Parent, and Lead. Random House, 2017.
https://www.workingpreacher.org/commentaries/revised-common-lectionary/ordinary-28-2/commentary-on-hebrews-412-16
https://sermonwriter.com/biblical-commentary-old/hebrews-412-16/
https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/eng/dsb/hebrews-4.html
https://www.forbes.com/health/mind/five-common-dream-meanings/
https://www.poemhunter.com/poem/because-even-the-word-obstacle-is-an-obstacle/
Jared Neusch—Year B Proper 23
Listen to audio: https://cloud.gci.org/dl/GReverb/GR053-Neusch-YearB-Propers23.mp3
October 13, 2024 — Proper 23 in Ordinary Time
Hebrews 4:12-16
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Program Transcript
Jared Neusch—Year B Proper 23
Anthony: Let’s move on to our next passage of the month. It’s Hebrews 4:12-16. It is a Revised Common Lectionary passage for Proper 23 in Ordinary Time, which is October 13. Jared, I’d be grateful if you’d read it for us, please.
Neusch:
Indeed, the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing until it divides soul from spirit, joints from marrow; it is able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart. 13 And before him no creature is hidden, but all are naked and laid bare to the eyes of the one to whom we must render an account.14 Since, then, we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus, the Son of God, let us hold fast to our confession. 15 For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who in every respect has been tested as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us therefore approach the throne of grace with boldness, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.
Anthony: It seems to me Christians generally understand the importance of reading the written word, as we’re doing. But this pericope, especially in the earlier portions of it, it points us, in verses 12-14 to how the ultimate Word of God, the living Word, Jesus Christ (which you just talked about in the last passage) reads us by the Spirit.
So, what would you want our listening audience to know about this particular double movement?
Neusch: I’ll say kind of an introductory thing at first, and then I’ll get into that two-way movement bit, if that’s okay.
I don’t know about you, but I’ve mostly heard growing up this text taught in sermons as simply, and one dimensionally, being about the Bible: this just is a text about the Bible — which of course would have only been the Old Testament at this point when it was written. And the problem with that interpretation, that this is just saying the Bible is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, is that it’s insufficient.
It doesn’t quite cut it. And you can get that from context, just reading a bit about what it says, but also, more so theologically. And the letter, as we just read last was, it began with Hebrews telling us that God has spoken through other ways previously, but now he is speaking through his Son.
And so, the main thrust of Hebrews is about the supremacy of Christ, in general, as the way that God speaks now. And so, we do get the sense that with this Greek word, the logos, it’s not just Scripture. Although it very well may include, it doesn’t exclude scripture, but the logos is so much more big. It’s the logic of God. It’s the Word. And we know through John 1, it manifests as Christ.
Some movements of the church can slip into almost the deification or worship of Scripture a bit, especially when they use the “word of God” in this text to just mean the Bible. And I think we need to be a bit wary of that because the scriptures need to be read through the logos of Christ.
It needs the Spirit of Christ, as the life giver, as we read it. Because Jesus even says, you search the scriptures because in them, you think in the scriptures, you think you have eternal life, but it’s actually me that these scriptures are speaking of it in the first place. [John 5:39]
That’s one of the clarifications, which you said in the very beginning. It’s more than just Scripture. It’s the voice, it is the logos, the logic of God, who now we know him as the Son. And so, I think that’s an important way, an important frame for understanding this and being with him, being wary of just reducing it to our leather-bound books on our bedside table.
Anthony: Yes.
Neusch: And also, because we know that the scriptures can be weaponized and used for very anti-Christ purposes. And so, we don’t just want to have a flat statement that, look what this book does. It needs the Spirit of Christ, the logos, for that proper interpretation and application.
In terms of the two way flow you were speaking about, I think this is part of the way — wouldn’t claim to do it well, but I aim to do biblical studies and theology. Because in some ways I am a scientist of sorts, investigating the text with my tools. I’ve got my exegetical scalpel, this and that.
And then we get from Karl Barth (and you can name so many people) this idea of the reality of God. And it makes it such that when we do theology, we are dealing with God himself here, not just an abstract concept that we can kind of fillet out on the lab desk and work with. So, I feel a bit like in the biblical scholar world, I’m using my Fisher price tools to try and chip away at the scriptures.
But ultimately, it’s the logos of God who is piercing to the division of my soul and spirit and is discerning the thoughts and intentions of my heart. It’s the logos of God that pierces and cuts and devise and examines us. We don’t then want to avoid investigating scripture. I think that’s helpful. And it’s part of the process and the journey of honoring the text, of valuing it and using our best tools to help us make the most sense of it.
But in doing so, we also have to step back and go, we are also dealing with the reality of God here, who we are theologizing about, who is cutting us in the process. And he is, in a good way, pruning us and doing surgery on us and helping us. So that’s just a bit of the way I tend to think about it.
Anthony: That is a helpful frame. And we invite the Lord by his Spirit to do his surgery. And we’re reminded that all surgery is major surgery. There’s nothing minor about any surgery.
Jared, in the staggering reality of the ongoing incarnation of Christ, we have a high priest who gets us, understands us, who knows our weaknesses, our suffering. And just for a moment, I want to pull in a quote from George McDonald. He wrote, “Jesus is in himself aware of every human pain. He feels it also. In him too it is pain. With the energy of tenderest love he wills his brothers and sisters free, that he may fill them to overflowing with that essential thing, joy.”
And in that case, joy is paradoxical, right? Maybe this is the mercy that the author of Hebrews tells us about in verse 16, that we receive mercy. And that part of that is joy that doesn’t make sense in the midst of all that’s going on in our lives. But tell us more about this incarnate one who gets us.
Neusch: Yeah, what a powerful and just a really profound reality. I think about it on a few different levels. On one level, it is incredibly meaningful, and it really encourages us that he has endured suffering, and pain, temptation and all these things, and we’re not alone in our trials. And that really does make a difference.
We have to imagine the possibility that it could have been a world in which God did not incarnate, and he was a distant, he or she was a distant figure on a throne who could not relate, wasn’t interested in relating. And that would be a bummer of a relationship with God.
But it’s such a gift that we have one who became man, became human. And that there is that identification and that solidarity with us. And that’s really, really, really meaningful. And it shows God by love.
It shows you there’s not much of a clearer demonstration of love than that and his coming and his willingness to incarnate and suffer and die to be with us. So that’s beautiful, and it really cuts deep.
On a second level, I tend to think of this also as a bit of a blueprint for us, for solidarity and peacemaking and love for others around us. I see this about Jesus, and I think we’re challenged to imitate him by seeing those who are marginalized, in danger, and in need, and we are then challenged to descend into their world, so to speak, to participate with them. And this is the nuts and bolts of how one lays down their life for others, which refers to in the New Testament, “no greater love,” and it speaks about laying down a life. I think this is some of what that’s referring to.
So, on one level, it’s hugely meaningful for us. I also am inspired by it and take it as a model. Oh, I think there’s an incarnational ethic there, that we can go into other people’s space where they need someone with them and join them and not just pray from a distance or something like that. I think that there’s something to grab hold of there in terms of our own living.
And then I think, maybe on a third level, I think about this that there is a participation here, as well, that now flows the other way. It’s not just that Christ has experienced our world — though, again, this is very meaningful — but in him experiencing our world and in his resurrection now, we now participate in his reality.
He has grabbed ahold of our wrists and pulled us with him when he was with us. Because of this, we’re not only, as Paul stated, crucified with Christ (there’s that participation there), but we’re also now sharing in the reality and the hope of the resurrection to come as well. So, him being someone who is with us and knows our suffering and weakness, it’s great that it’s meaningful that he’s there with us.
And then on the other side of the same coin, there’s this excitement that I’m now getting to share in his reality. So, he “gets us,” but now he’s made it such that I get to understand him and get to inhabit his space as well. I’m moved by that kind of participatory dynamic in this idea.
Anthony: Jesus is the true human in my mind. As you referred to, we can look at him and see an example of what some might call incarnational living. And you talked about laying down your life for another, and I think of a Pauline text that tells us to esteem others greater than ourselves And Jared, I don’t know about you, but that does not come naturally for me. I’m really good at esteeming myself, but putting somebody else above my interests and needs, it does not come naturally, but it’s a supernatural thing by God’s Spirit. And to be active participants in that, in the divine nature, as you alluded to at the end, that we get to join him in his love relationship with the Father and that gets expressed with our neighbor. What I take away from what you just said is always, there’s more than meets the eye when we come to Scripture.
There’s such depth and richness and robustness if we would just allow the spirit to help us to see. Just a statement and a thought.
Neusch: Really well said.
Program Transcript
Jared Neusch—Year B Proper 23
Anthony: Let’s move on to our next passage of the month. It’s Hebrews 4:12-16. It is a Revised Common Lectionary passage for Proper 23 in Ordinary Time, which is October 13. Jared, I’d be grateful if you’d read it for us, please.
Neusch:
Indeed, the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing until it divides soul from spirit, joints from marrow; it is able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart. 13 And before him no creature is hidden, but all are naked and laid bare to the eyes of the one to whom we must render an account.14 Since, then, we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus, the Son of God, let us hold fast to our confession. 15 For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who in every respect has been tested as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us therefore approach the throne of grace with boldness, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.
Anthony: It seems to me Christians generally understand the importance of reading the written word, as we’re doing. But this pericope, especially in the earlier portions of it, it points us, in verses 12-14 to how the ultimate Word of God, the living Word, Jesus Christ (which you just talked about in the last passage) reads us by the Spirit.
So, what would you want our listening audience to know about this particular double movement?
Neusch: I’ll say kind of an introductory thing at first, and then I’ll get into that two-way movement bit, if that’s okay.
I don’t know about you, but I’ve mostly heard growing up this text taught in sermons as simply, and one dimensionally, being about the Bible: this just is a text about the Bible — which of course would have only been the Old Testament at this point when it was written. And the problem with that interpretation, that this is just saying the Bible is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, is that it’s insufficient.
It doesn’t quite cut it. And you can get that from context, just reading a bit about what it says, but also, more so theologically. And the letter, as we just read last was, it began with Hebrews telling us that God has spoken through other ways previously, but now he is speaking through his Son.
And so, the main thrust of Hebrews is about the supremacy of Christ, in general, as the way that God speaks now. And so, we do get the sense that with this Greek word, the logos, it’s not just Scripture. Although it very well may include, it doesn’t exclude scripture, but the logos is so much more big. It’s the logic of God. It’s the Word. And we know through John 1, it manifests as Christ.
Some movements of the church can slip into almost the deification or worship of Scripture a bit, especially when they use the “word of God” in this text to just mean the Bible. And I think we need to be a bit wary of that because the scriptures need to be read through the logos of Christ.
It needs the Spirit of Christ, as the life giver, as we read it. Because Jesus even says, you search the scriptures because in them, you think in the scriptures, you think you have eternal life, but it’s actually me that these scriptures are speaking of it in the first place. [John 5:39]
That’s one of the clarifications, which you said in the very beginning. It’s more than just Scripture. It’s the voice, it is the logos, the logic of God, who now we know him as the Son. And so, I think that’s an important way, an important frame for understanding this and being with him, being wary of just reducing it to our leather-bound books on our bedside table.
Anthony: Yes.
Neusch: And also, because we know that the scriptures can be weaponized and used for very anti-Christ purposes. And so, we don’t just want to have a flat statement that, look what this book does. It needs the Spirit of Christ, the logos, for that proper interpretation and application.
In terms of the two way flow you were speaking about, I think this is part of the way — wouldn’t claim to do it well, but I aim to do biblical studies and theology. Because in some ways I am a scientist of sorts, investigating the text with my tools. I’ve got my exegetical scalpel, this and that.
And then we get from Karl Barth (and you can name so many people) this idea of the reality of God. And it makes it such that when we do theology, we are dealing with God himself here, not just an abstract concept that we can kind of fillet out on the lab desk and work with. So, I feel a bit like in the biblical scholar world, I’m using my Fisher price tools to try and chip away at the scriptures.
But ultimately, it’s the logos of God who is piercing to the division of my soul and spirit and is discerning the thoughts and intentions of my heart. It’s the logos of God that pierces and cuts and devise and examines us. We don’t then want to avoid investigating scripture. I think that’s helpful. And it’s part of the process and the journey of honoring the text, of valuing it and using our best tools to help us make the most sense of it.
But in doing so, we also have to step back and go, we are also dealing with the reality of God here, who we are theologizing about, who is cutting us in the process. And he is, in a good way, pruning us and doing surgery on us and helping us. So that’s just a bit of the way I tend to think about it.
Anthony: That is a helpful frame. And we invite the Lord by his Spirit to do his surgery. And we’re reminded that all surgery is major surgery. There’s nothing minor about any surgery.
Jared, in the staggering reality of the ongoing incarnation of Christ, we have a high priest who gets us, understands us, who knows our weaknesses, our suffering. And just for a moment, I want to pull in a quote from George McDonald. He wrote, “Jesus is in himself aware of every human pain. He feels it also. In him too it is pain. With the energy of tenderest love he wills his brothers and sisters free, that he may fill them to overflowing with that essential thing, joy.”
And in that case, joy is paradoxical, right? Maybe this is the mercy that the author of Hebrews tells us about in verse 16, that we receive mercy. And that part of that is joy that doesn’t make sense in the midst of all that’s going on in our lives. But tell us more about this incarnate one who gets us.
Neusch: Yeah, what a powerful and just a really profound reality. I think about it on a few different levels. On one level, it is incredibly meaningful, and it really encourages us that he has endured suffering, and pain, temptation and all these things, and we’re not alone in our trials. And that really does make a difference.
We have to imagine the possibility that it could have been a world in which God did not incarnate, and he was a distant, he or she was a distant figure on a throne who could not relate, wasn’t interested in relating. And that would be a bummer of a relationship with God.
But it’s such a gift that we have one who became man, became human. And that there is that identification and that solidarity with us. And that’s really, really, really meaningful. And it shows God by love.
It shows you there’s not much of a clearer demonstration of love than that and his coming and his willingness to incarnate and suffer and die to be with us. So that’s beautiful, and it really cuts deep.
On a second level, I tend to think of this also as a bit of a blueprint for us, for solidarity and peacemaking and love for others around us. I see this about Jesus, and I think we’re challenged to imitate him by seeing those who are marginalized, in danger, and in need, and we are then challenged to descend into their world, so to speak, to participate with them. And this is the nuts and bolts of how one lays down their life for others, which refers to in the New Testament, “no greater love,” and it speaks about laying down a life. I think this is some of what that’s referring to.
So, on one level, it’s hugely meaningful for us. I also am inspired by it and take it as a model. Oh, I think there’s an incarnational ethic there, that we can go into other people’s space where they need someone with them and join them and not just pray from a distance or something like that. I think that there’s something to grab hold of there in terms of our own living.
And then I think, maybe on a third level, I think about this that there is a participation here, as well, that now flows the other way. It’s not just that Christ has experienced our world — though, again, this is very meaningful — but in him experiencing our world and in his resurrection now, we now participate in his reality.
He has grabbed ahold of our wrists and pulled us with him when he was with us. Because of this, we’re not only, as Paul stated, crucified with Christ (there’s that participation there), but we’re also now sharing in the reality and the hope of the resurrection to come as well. So, him being someone who is with us and knows our suffering and weakness, it’s great that it’s meaningful that he’s there with us.
And then on the other side of the same coin, there’s this excitement that I’m now getting to share in his reality. So, he “gets us,” but now he’s made it such that I get to understand him and get to inhabit his space as well. I’m moved by that kind of participatory dynamic in this idea.
Anthony: Jesus is the true human in my mind. As you referred to, we can look at him and see an example of what some might call incarnational living. And you talked about laying down your life for another, and I think of a Pauline text that tells us to esteem others greater than ourselves And Jared, I don’t know about you, but that does not come naturally for me. I’m really good at esteeming myself, but putting somebody else above my interests and needs, it does not come naturally, but it’s a supernatural thing by God’s Spirit. And to be active participants in that, in the divine nature, as you alluded to at the end, that we get to join him in his love relationship with the Father and that gets expressed with our neighbor. What I take away from what you just said is always, there’s more than meets the eye when we come to Scripture.
There’s such depth and richness and robustness if we would just allow the spirit to help us to see. Just a statement and a thought.
Neusch: Really well said.
Small Group Discussion Questions
- How does expanding your thinking about what might constitute the living and active word of God create more opportunities to engage with God in your daily life?
- As mentioned in the sermon, we often have a preferred way of thinking about the word of God. What has been your preferred way of thinking about the word of God, and how has that encouraged you?
- For many Christians, it is habit to equate the word of God with the Bible. Is there another suggested definition from the sermon that you are interested in exploring or thinking about? (e.g., Holy Spirit within you, Scripture, ancient texts and other literature, nature, interactions with others, and Jesus Christ). If so, why does this sound interesting to you?
- Jesus Christ possesses empathy for us in our vulnerability because he became human. What does this teach us about cultivating empathy for others, especially those who are different from us?
