GCI Equipper

We Believe; Help Our Unbelief

The journey through Holy Week and beyond helps us with our unbelief.

The disciples had been through a lot with Jesus; they’d seen multitudes fed, demons rebuked, people healed, and the dead brought back to life. There was still confusion in their minds about who Jesus really was, but some were starting to believe he just might be the Messiah. His teachings were profound at times, confusing at other times as he loved to speak in parables – requiring them to think deeply about what meaning was behind his words and stories. They knew they were headed toward Jerusalem, but they seemed to believe it was for a different purpose than Jesus told them. Three times, he told them what he was going to face. Here is the third passage:

While Jesus was going up to Jerusalem, he took the twelve disciples aside by themselves, and said to them on the way, “See, we are going up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man will be handed over to the chief priests and scribes, and they will condemn him to death; then they will hand him over to the Gentiles to be mocked and flogged and crucified; and on the third day he will be raised.” (Matthew 20:17-19 NRSV)

Could he have been any clearer? And yet, the Bible tells us the disciples responded in different ways. Matthew tells us that Peter initially rebuked him; in another place we read they were distressed; in still another we read they did not understand what he was saying. Is it so much they didn’t understand the words he was saying, or was it they simply refused to believe what he was saying could be true? We can only speculate what was in their hearts, but being human like they were, I can easily see their refusal to believe that Jesus was going to die in such a manner. After all, he was just getting started. They believed in him, yet they dealt with unbelief.

The triumphal entry

They reached Bethphage, at the Mount of Olives and Jesus instructed two of his disciples to go get a specific donkey colt. He told them they would see the colt immediately after entering the village. He even told them what to say to the owner of the colt. We can only imagine what was on their minds. How did he know the colt would be there? How did he know how the owner would respond? What was going on here?

You know the story:

The disciples went and did as Jesus had directed them; they brought the donkey and the colt, and put their cloaks on them, and he sat on them. A very large crowd spread their cloaks on the road, and others cut branches from the trees and spread them on the road. The crowds that went ahead of him and that followed were shouting,

“Hosanna to the Son of David!
Blessed is the one who comes in the name of the Lord!
Hosanna in the highest heaven!” (Matthew 21:6-9 NRSV)

This reception was nothing like Jesus had prophesied. Perhaps he was wrong; perhaps he wouldn’t be arrested. Perhaps he was the king they wanted him to be. It was odd that he rode a colt instead of a stallion, but his reception must have been reassuring. It was a great moment – until they reached Jerusalem. First the crowd wonders, “Who is this?” Then Jesus clears out the temple and chastises the merchants. His authority is questioned, he denounces the scribes and Pharisees, and he cries over Jerusalem saying:

“For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, “Blessed is the one who comes in the name of the Lord.’” (Matthew 23:39 NRSV)

Didn’t they just say those very words as he began his descent into Jerusalem? Some did; we just read that passage. But the citizens of Jerusalem didn’t make that proclamation. No, Jerusalem, as Jesus described, “is the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it.” (Matthew 23:37 NRSV)

By now the disciples’ emotions must be reeling. They wanted to believe, they needed to believe, yet there were questions as they still dealt with unbelief.

The Lord’s Supper – Holy Thursday

We come to what is now called the Eucharist (also known as Holy Communion and Lord’s Supper). Here Jesus demonstrated servant leadership by washing the disciples’ feet. He demonstrated mercy and grace by washing Judas’ feet. He introduced the elements of bread and wine as representing his body and his blood of the covenant, “which is poured out for you.” He told us to eat and drink “in remembrance of him” – so that we would always remember his identity, his relationship, his love, his mercy, his forgiveness, his sacrifice, his dedication, his willingness to become our sin so that we could be gifted his righteousness.

He again tells the disciples he must go away, but he would not leave them alone. He tells them about the Holy Spirit – the Comforter – the Spirit of truth – who would always be with them (us). He gave them a new commandment – to love one another – just as he loved them. He prayed on their behalf and talked of their communion with Father, Son and Holy Spirit. He told them they don’t belong to the world, and because of this, the world would hate them. He told them they would be persecuted, but they were to continue to testify about him. He told them they would be full of sorrow, but then their sorrow would turn to joy. Then he prayed for them.

Questions arose. We know of two specific questions: Thomas wanted to know how to follow Jesus if they didn’t know the way. Jesus said, “I am the way.” Philip said, “show us the Father,” Jesus answered, “If you have seen me, you have seen the Father.” Do you believe those answers were satisfactory? I rather doubt it. I’m guessing they raised more questions. Lord, we believe, but please, please help our unbelief.

Good Friday

Jesus and the disciples leave the Upper Room and head to Gethsemane – a beautiful garden full of olive trees – where Jesus loved to pray. Here Jesus pours his heart out to the Father and says the words we aspire to say, “Not my will, but yours be done.” A large weaponized crowd arrives from the chief priests and elders, Peter cuts off the ear of a servant of the high priest, Jesus heals the man, the leaders arrest Jesus and take him to Caiaphas, the disciples flee, Jesus is beaten and mocked and placed in a prisoner’s dungeon below Caiaphas’ house. Has the disciples’ unbelief started to weigh more heavily than their belief?

The next morning Jesus is shuffled between Pilate and Herod. Pilate keeps asking Jesus if he was the king of the Jews. Jesus simply said, “You say so.” The crowds screamed, “Crucify him; crucify him.” Pilate washes his hands and turns Jesus over to be mocked, spat upon, beaten and adorned with a crown of thrones before being led to the cross.

Jesus makes seven statements from the cross (see our suggested Good Friday service), then he surrenders his spirit and dies. He is buried by Nicodemus and Joseph, and the grave site is covered with a large stone and sealed. At this point, you can imagine the disciples’ belief is at an all-time low. They certainly saw nothing good about this Friday. Their hope was gone. Their dreams were dashed. The one they thought was the Messiah to relieve them from Roman rule is dead. What to believe? “Lord, help our belief and our unbelief. We feel anything but good.”

The day is good because of what it represents – forgiveness, inclusion, redemption, reconciliation, salvation, newness of life.

Holy Saturday

There is not much mention of this day in Scripture. You can safely assume it was a day of mourning for the disciples. It was a day of wondering what happened – what did we just witness? Where do we go from here? It was some time before the church looked at Holy Saturday as a day of recommitment. It was a day of rejoicing – knowing Jesus destroyed the power of death and helped us see death as a part of our journey with him that leads to spending eternity with the triune God. Looking back, Holy Saturday reminds us that even when things look bad, we know Jesus is alive and present with us. When hope seems lost, we stand up because we know the author of hope. Holy Saturday helps us; but it was a day of incredible unbelief for the disciples.

Easter

The women go to the tomb and everything changes.

And suddenly there was a great earthquake; for an angel of the Lord, descending from heaven, came and rolled back the stone and sat on it. His appearance was like lightning, and his clothing white as snow. For fear of him the guards shook and became like dead men. But the angel said to the women, “Do not be afraid; I know that you are looking for Jesus who was crucified. He is not here; for he has been raised, as he said. Come, see the place where he lay. Then go quickly and tell his disciples, ‘He has been raised from the dead, and indeed he is going ahead of you to Galilee; there you will see him.’ This is my message for you.” So they left the tomb quickly with fear and great joy, and ran to tell his disciples. Suddenly Jesus met them and said, “Greetings!” And they came to him, took hold of his feet, and worshiped him. Then Jesus said to them, “Do not be afraid; go and tell my brothers to go to Galilee; there they will see me.” (Matthew 28:2-10 NRSV)

Grief turns to joy – He is risen! The disciples want to believe. A couple of them run to the tomb to confirm it is empty. Other disciples encounter Jesus on the way to Emmaus. Jesus appears and many believe, but Thomas is not with them. He still has unbelief. Jesus appears again and tells Thomas, “Touch me, see that I am real.” Thomas is the first to proclaim Jesus as Lord and God. Jesus meets the disciples at Galilee and commissions them. Matthew said:

When they saw him, they worshipped him, but some doubted. (Matthew 28:17 NRSV)

In John’s gospel we read that even after seeing the resurrected Jesus, some of the disciples went back to fishing. We don’t know all the story. Perhaps they were tired of waiting for Jesus to do something; perhaps they were still a bit discouraged simply because they didn’t know what it all meant; perhaps they were all dealing with the guilt of deserting Jesus; perhaps they wondered if they were still needed. They believed; but they struggled with their unbelief.

Again, Jesus shows up, gives them a bountiful haul of fish, restores Peter, and tells them to wait in Jerusalem.

And beyond

Let’s read the rest of the Matthew passage:

And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything that I have commanded you. And remember, I am with you always, to the end of the age. (Matthew 28:18-20 NRSV)

Over a span of forty days Jesus spent time with the disciples and spoke about the kingdom of God. He then told them to wait in Jerusalem for the “promise of the Father.” Then they watched him ascend. And they believed. Much of their unbelief had passed.

We know the rest of the story. We know what happened at Pentecost. We have the Acts of the Apostles telling us the story of the early church. We have nearly 2,000 years of history showing us how the words of Jesus have come to pass – over and over again. Yet we still struggle with unbelief.

Jesus, do you really have all power and authority over heaven and earth? Then why is this happening?

Jesus, am I really forgiven, redeemed and reconciled? Then why do I feel shame and guilt?

Jesus, are you really with me always, to the end of the age? Then why do I feel so lost, so lonely?

Jesus, are you really going to return? When?

God knows we struggle with unbelief. He knows we get caught up in the cares of the world. He knows we get consumed with worry over family and friends, work and the economy, wars and terrorism. He knows we believe, and he knows we struggle with unbelief. And that’s why it is vital for us to remember that Jesus is the center of the center. That’s why it is so important to focus on the worship calendar – because it keeps us focused on Jesus. It reminds us that he was promised, he did come, he did go to the wilderness and defeat the enemy, he did heal people, he did cast out demons, he did descend into Jerusalem, he was arrested and tortured and crucified, he did rise from the dead, and he did ascend to the Father. That’s why Holy Week is so important for us to focus on.

Paul tells us if we don’t have the resurrection, we have nothing. If Jesus is still in the grave, we have no hope. But he is alive. He is in us. He has forgiven us because he loves us. He has adopted us into the communion he shares with the Father and Holy Spirit. He is leading us toward healthy church. He is reminding us we’ve been called to reach out to others and love them just as he loves us – the Love Avenue. He is telling us to make disciples – the Faith Avenue. He reminds us that he has all power and authority, so we need fear nothing, so we worship – the Hope Avenue. And

 

he comforts us by telling us we are never alone.

Lord, we believe. Help our unbelief.

Rick Shallenberger

New & Improved GCI Branded Microsite

 

The GCI Microsite is a resource we provide to help you have a professional and easy to customize a website. This month, we added support for events to our GCI easy website template (aka “Microsites”). You could use this, for example, to promote your Easter service, or other special services during Holy Week on your website.

To see this in action, check out this demo website: https://micro.gci.church/garwood/

You’ll see the Good Friday service featured both in the 4th banner and the left feature block farther down the page. There is also a new “Events” page in the menu. These items only appear when you have added at least one event in the site editor. By default, we select the earliest occurring event to feature, but you can also prioritize which event(s) are featured by checking a box on the event page. If there are ‘featured” events, we choose the earliest occurring “featured” event to feature.

Each event has its own details, and you can customize the images used for featuring the event.

And you will find all of this on your website by clicking “Edit” at the bottom, then clicking the “Events” tab in the editor.

If you do not have a microsite and are interested in setting one up please email support@gci.org

A Heartache for Our Neighborhoods

Jesus’ heartache for humanity informed his mission. Does it inform ours?

By Heber Ticas, Superintendent, Latin America

We often express a feeling of deep sorrow and anguish for others as a “heartache.” We use phrases like, “my heart aches for you,” “my heart is torn,” or “my heart is broken.” We are moved as we observe the pain, anguish, and misery that our fellow neighbor may be experiencing. In our shared humanity, it is impossible not to be moved. Although these experiences usually tend to occur around those who we are already in relationship with, there are times when the strings of our hearts are tugged by a story or event that it’s not as close. Events in our community, our state, our country can pull at our hearts – even across the world as we experienced while watching events unfold in the Ukraine.

As a church body, we are called to participate in Jesus’ everyday mission in our neighborhoods and communities. We want to do this in such a way that we discern what the Lord is already doing. This discernment is not possible unless we move from the interior walls of our insulated community, and into the fiber of our neighborhoods to discover the Jesus movements amongst those who are not yet in relationship with the Lord. As we move outside the walls, we must open our eyes to see and our minds to discern. I would encourage you to pray that the Lord would give you a heartache for your neighborhood. That your heart may ache for those who struggle with marital relationships, parent-child relationships, alcohol abuse, sickness, grief, and the many circumstances that tend to surround people’s lives.

I am convinced that this is what we find in Jesus’ earthly ministry. Not only did he empty himself to join our ranks, but he did it in such a way that he embodied his ministry. He moved outside the four walls of the synagogue and engaged the pain and anguish of his community. His heart ached as he encountered those who were struggling and suffering. This should not surprise us. The mission of God flows from the love of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit; “For God so loved the world.” Consider Jesus’ heartache in the following passages:

  • And Jesus went throughout all the cities and villages, when he saw the crowds, he had compassion for them, because they were harassed and helpless, like sheep without a shepherd (Mathew 9:35a – 36)

  • And when he drew near and saw the city, he wept over it (Luke 19:41)

  • Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest (Mathew 11:28)

In these few passages we can discern the common thread of Jesus’ heart as he encountered people. I have not even mentioned the many times we read “Jesus had compassion,” and the times he paused to see and engage the stories of individuals.

Our missional engagements and missional postures have got to be informed by the incarnate mission of our Lord. As we embed ourselves into the fiber of our communities and discover those who labor and are heavy laden, our hearts will not be the same. We will find ourselves distressed in our Spirit just as Paul in the city of Athens. I strongly believe that this heartache can be the catalyst to move a congregation into the Love Avenue with passion and a sense of greater expectancy for missional participation. Our heartache can turn into an overwhelming joy as we point people to Jesus and experience the satisfaction of seeing lives transformed by the power of the Spirit.

Join me in praying to the Father for our hearts to be torn and broken for those who journey through life without the hope that we enjoy in Christ. May God give us a heartache for our neighborhoods. May he open lanes for us to engage and build lasting relationships that would facilitate coming to Jesus along with those who are seeking his rest.

Welcoming Guests and Visitors

Prepare now for the guests and visitors the Spirit will lead to your church.

By Daphne Sidney, Superintendent Australasia

Have you considered how it might feel to be a first-time visitor to your local worship service? While long-time members may be very comfortable surrounded by familiar faces and friends, it is easy to forget how that first encounter with church might feel.

In the positive, I have heard stories of members who recount their early days as newcomers to the church – and how much they appreciated the brethren who befriended and included them. They appreciated the hospitality of being invited to a member’s home for a meal and the intergenerational friendships which were formed. In the negative, there are too many stories of new people who didn’t know where to fit in, or worse, wondered if they ever would.

When we discuss inviting newcomers to our worship services – and it is such a joy to see new people coming to church – I hope we view this through the lens of the transforming work of the Spirit in his church, and not about filling seats. Jesus Christ’s most important work on earth is that of building his church – his body – but it doesn’t always equate to our pews being filled. We’d love to have our churches full, but that’s not our motivation. Our joy comes from participating with Jesus in reaching out to others so his body is built his way. We want others to know the joy of knowing Jesus. We ought never to allow our enthusiasm to be reduced or minimized by the negative, transactional thinking that we’re just trying to get numbers.

When a visitor graces us with his or her presence, do we see that visitor as someone precious to Jesus and precious to his Church? It makes a difference, and leads to the question: do we genuinely value the Church ourselves as Jesus Christ values his Church?

What better passages of Scripture could we find than the masterpiece which Paul wrote from prison – the book of Ephesians – which is full of praise and worship and provides a beautiful understanding of Christ and his Church.

Jesus loved the Church so much he gave himself for it – demonstrating the great sacrificial love he has for the church. Paul writes:

Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, and to present her to himself as a radiant church… (Eph 5:25-27).

Notice how relational this is. Paul uses the metaphor of a marriage – a loving relationship between husband and wife – to describe the loving, intimate and special relationship between Jesus and his Church. The church is precious to Jesus, and all who enter its doors are also precious to him.

Jesus also refers to the church metaphorically as being his own body – the body of Christ. With this imagery we see the church as the locus of Christ’s activity.[1] The church is an extension of Christ’s ministry and in this way, we see how the early New Testament church was birthed and multiplied. Empowered by the Spirit the disciples began to boldly witness as they had been told:

But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth (Acts 1:8).

In the church today we are also empowered by the Holy Spirit, as we cultivate a sensitive heart to where the Spirit leads us. As the word says, be ready to give an answer to those who ask of the hope that is evident in us. We don’t need to be anxious about what we might answer, as we are exhorted more on how our answer is to be given – we are to respond with gentleness and respect. These are relational terms.  John Dickson, a Christian author and speaker, once lamented how he indulged himself so much in arguing his point, that he lost the person.  Dickson has since learned the value of humility and using the power of words to encourage and uplift others.[2] The Spirit will help us, and his presence helps us be mindful of those around us and of their needs. He wants us to seek out visitors and make them feel welcome and appreciated, just as we give attention to someone at church who is standing all alone, or to someone who needs a word of kindness or encouragement.

There are often opportunities to encourage and help a visitor participate in praise and worship throughout the service. When there is a scripture reading, speak assuredly of his praises, highlight the worth-ship of God, giving encouragement to a visitor to participate in the praise and worship of God.   The writer of Hebrews talks about offering the sacrifice of praise and sharing this with others:

Through Jesus, therefore, let us continually offer to God a sacrifice of praise – the fruit of lips that confess his name. And do not forget to do good and to share with others, for with such sacrifices God is pleased (Heb 13:15-16).

Other scriptures confirm how this sacrifice of praise expresses itself in communal worship.

Speak to one another with psalms, hymns and spiritual songs. Sing and make music in your heart to the Lord, always giving thanks to God the Father for everything, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. (Ephesians 5:19-20).

Sing with your heart, inspiring visitors to join in the worship. Uplifting music and praise can be very healing and encouraging to them as the focus turns to God, his love, his great compassion and care for us.

This is all part of being hospitable and welcoming to guests. From the car park to the end of the service, we would like our guests to feel welcomed and to have that sense of belonging.

More than all the strategies which can be implemented, it is about presence – what people feel and sense. We might meet in rather ordinary halls, but the presence of God can be felt in a church that is abiding in the trinitarian love of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Evident is a sense of the presence of God and of love and a unified spirit, made alive in and through Christ. This sense of presence and inclusion will not lend itself to cliques but rather to inviting people into open circles of love and friendship.

Consider inviting a visitor or guest to sit with you. Explain the proceedings; help with their children; show them the amenities. Perhaps more importantly, lend an ear to their story, listen attentively with patience and compassion, and simply be present with them.

In reflecting on my own experiences, I remember finding such characteristics in a rather unexpected place. I was invited to a service being held in the basement of an old church building – a place essentially designated for the homeless, the poor and the marginalized. Well, it is hard to describe the wonderful atmosphere there –love and warmth radiated in the room. I was greeted with smiling, joyful faces, personally accompanied to my seat, and given a hymn book. I felt incredibly looked after and included. No doubt this delightful group understood inclusion and how important it is to feel like you belong.

This reminds me of Paul’s assertion of the connectedness of the body and the inherent worth and dignity of all, regardless of social status and background.

 For we were all baptized into one Spirit so as to form one body – whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free – and we were all given the one Spirit to drink (I Cor 12:13).

May this cultivate in us a deepening gratitude for the grace we have received and may we seek ways to extend this grace as we welcome others into the body of Christ.  Let us be intentional to pray for newcomers, that they too may receive the blessings of love and belonging which we have.

[1]Erickson, Millard J. Christian Theology USA 1985 p.1036

[2] Dickson, John.  Humilitas:  A Lost Key to Life Love and Leadership.  Harper Collins (Au)

I’m Feeling Left Out…

What is the place for long-time elders and other church leaders within the new focus on the Love, Hope, and Faith Avenues of a healthy church?

By Glen A Weber, Central Region Support Team, Coach

Leadership in our denomination has been on a constant trajectory of growth over the past few decades. I began serving in ministry in late 1972 (fifty years ago next fall). Church leadership involved having a pastor and occasionally an associate pastor if the church was large enough. Pastors would often ordain elders. Typically, the standard for ordination of an elder was based on the qualifications given in 1 Timothy 3/Titus 1, but rarely with any job description. Elders served “at-large” simply being “pillars” in the church and occasionally serving the pastor by preaching, leading Bible studies, anointing the sick and similar duties. Similarly, deacons and deaconesses were also ordained – based on their service in the church.

Many years later, GCI began to focus more intentionally on the “ministry” being performed and began to appoint and “commission” leaders for specific ministries – worship, children’s church, youth, hospitality, etc. Because of this new focus on commissioning ministry leaders, we stopped the practice of ordaining deacons and deaconesses. We also stopped focusing on titles and positions and gave more focus to mission and ministry. It was a good move for where the Holy Spirit is leading us.

As President Greg Williams began to focus us more on team-based, pastor-led leadership, our pastors also needed to make significant changes. It has not been easy for some of our pastors to transition from having to make the bulk of the day-to-day decisions, to working with a team of leaders who are more than capable to make decisions on their own. It takes more training – and frankly, it forces our pastors to function more like Jesus did – raising up, training, leading and sending a team into effective ministry.

Within the team-based, pastor-led approach to ministry, Greg Williams also introduced the concept of three Avenues – the Hope, Faith and Love Avenues. Hope (all aspects of the weekly worship service), Faith (helping people grow in their faith, discipleship) and Love (engaging with the neighborhood around our church) have become the three legs of a strong leadership process that allows us to reach new people, disciple all members, and more easily connect new people into the life of the church. These Avenues help us focus more on developing emerging leaders – an absolute necessity for the future of GCI. In my forty-eight years of pastoral ministry in GCI, I have never been more excited about the strong foundations on which our congregations are being built!

However, as the Avenues have been developing, some other congregational leaders – elders, ministry leaders, Advisory Council members, etc. are sometimes feeling side-lined and wondering where you fit into the new leadership structure. “What is my part now? I’m feeling left out!” “Am I being put out to pasture?” Only if you choose to go out to pasture. Our new focus on the Avenues and developing emerging leaders might not leave you “in charge” of a mission or ministry, but it never stops you from having an impact. Young leaders need mentors; they need encouragement and affirmation; they need your prayers; they need your support.

The Avenues are designed to make sure each congregation has a healthy focus on all three areas of the ministry of Jesus. This means an adjustment in our systems within our congregations. Budgets, mission, and ministry are now built around the three Avenues.

Some of our readers will have been invited to become an Avenue Champion. That means you are being put in a position of recruiting others to participate on your team. The team will work with the pastor and the other Avenue Champions to develop that aspect of their congregation. This opens more opportunities for current and future members to participate in one of these key areas of ministry.

Hope: Worship team, hospitality team, greeters, ushers, and more as needed.

Faith: Connect groups (of many types), Bible studies, topical workshops and other formats to help members grow in their faith.

Love: Planning and executing engagement activities outside the church walls, fundraising through community sponsors, and positions to be developed as appropriate for your church.

As an elder, retired pastor, or former church leader, I suggest you look for opportunities to share your passion, your gifts, and your maturity with the Avenue that draws your interest.

Here is a thought from pastor, author and leadership trainer, Terry A Smith (www.terryasmith.com) from his podcast – Sept. 19, 2021 “What Could Go Right?”

You must develop a possibility instinct. You must see the potential of a preferred future. Your first thought should be, What if?” What if you take off your old church hat (the one you have maybe worn in service for decades) and begin serving in every way possible – with an attitude of possibility – and Jesus will provide you a new hat that will thrill your heart!

Five years ago, I retired from full-time ministry and all official responsibilities within GCI. My wife and I moved away from the congregation we were serving in Los Angeles and moved to Colorado. My wife and I had determined that we would attend a GCI congregation, so we began attending the local congregation in Arvada (a city in the northern part of metro Denver). I also began attending the other GCI congregation that continues to meet on Saturday. I thoroughly enjoyed both congregations and simply began supporting and serving the pastors and others in the congregation. For five years, I have been attending both congregations and loving on them. I still don’t have an official position. I’m simply striving to be the most supportive member and local elder that I can be. Sometimes I am invited to preach or enter into leadership meetings and sometimes not. Has it been different for me? Sure, I’ve actually been freed up to really love people and the church and serve as needed.

Because I had been trained and certified as a GCI coach, I continued to coach a few interns/pastoral residents and a couple pastors after my retirement. Over time, I was asked to do group coaching with pastors from the North Central Region (Five Voices) and later pastors in our Central Region (Hope Avenue, at first). I am now coaching nearly thirty people (many in groups of 5-6).

Rather than feeling a little “left out.” our congregational leaders (elders, deacons, deaconesses, former advisory council members, etc.) can now be freed-up to really enjoy serving the members, Avenue champions and pastors in new and exciting ways. In 1 Peter 2:5, we are told that we are living stones being built into a spiritual/holy temple. Where does your brick fit now? It’s a good question to pray about.

Church Hack: Easter Prep

Easter Sunday is the most attended church service every year. It is also a great opportunity to invite those who don’t normally attend to visit your church, whether you are meeting online or in person. Here are some steps to make your Easter service last beyond the Hope Avenue experience on Sunday. #GCIchurchhacks

Check out the links on page two for resources and graphics for your Easter service.

https://resources.gci.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/2022-CH3-Easter_Love_Ave_Pkg.pdf

The God of the Open Tomb

Telling our youth about God’s willingness to bend reality for us gives them a taste of how good and glorious our God is.

When I was the director of New Heights Summer Camp, it seemed like we got a significant rainstorm every year. The storms were rarely dangerous — more inconvenient than anything else. Once every decade or so a major storm would hit the area and cause flooding. Those larger storms were not to be taken lightly because they were far more disruptive and potentially dangerous.

One summer, we got several alerts that one of those big storms was headed our way. It was only the second or third day of our seven-day camp, and I was concerned about the impact of the thunderstorm. Looking at the size of the storm and the velocity of the wind, it was a real possibility that we would have to relocate half the camp to ensure everyone’s safety, which would not be fun for anyone. I began to worry, and my stress level rose as I strategized with my staff. Then one of my leaders said, “We should pray.”

Those three simple words snapped me out of my worry and reminded me of the greatness of our God. In that moment, I remembered that we served a God who commanded the storm. I remembered at that same camp a few years before, my predecessor, Jeff Broadnax, faced a similar situation. He led our camp in a prayer where he asked God to tell the storm to “cut it out.” And it did! The storm broke within an hour or so after our prayer time.

Prompted by the Holy Spirit, I told our staff to gather our campers for a time of prayer. I explained the situation to the camp and told them that we serve a mighty God who can command storms. I asked for three volunteers from the senior camp to pray on behalf of the camp. They prayed powerful prayers in the direction of the storm, once again asking God to tell the storm to “cut it out.” Then we waited. And we waited. Twenty minutes after the storm was supposed to hit, we saw no sign of it. One of our staff called up a live satellite image of the storm. It was massive! The thunderstorm covered the entire region…except for a thin corridor over our camp. It was as if there was a shield over us that parted the storm. I stopped camp again to show the campers the goodness and power of our God. It was a moment I will not soon forget, and I am sure it made an impression on our campers.

As we celebrate Easter this month, my mind turns to that empty tomb. In Luke we read:

On the first day of the week, very early in the morning, the women took the spices they had prepared and went to the tomb. They found the stone rolled away from the tomb, but when they entered, they did not find the body of the Lord Jesus. (Luke 24:1-3)

That empty tomb was a demonstration of God’s strength to save, and his determination to make everything new. Jesus has the power to take his own life back and give us new life. Every Easter should remind us that we serve a wonder-working God, whose love and power can transform us and our world. We need that reminder in this present evil age. In a world with so much darkness and despair, we need to be reminded of the might of our God. It is good to remember that we already have the victory in Christ and nothing in this world can change that. He is stronger than anything in this world, and he can suddenly change everything. This is a message our young people need to hear.

In our work with children and youth, let us not be afraid to introduce our young people to a God who bends reality for us. He is not a genie, working magic to satisfy our wishes. Rather, he is a loving God who blesses us in a way that is best because it is his good pleasure. In speaking to your young people about the significance of Easter, consider sharing your own testimony. Instead of retelling the story of the resurrection, tell them how the empty tomb changed your life. Tell them a story about how God told a storm in your life to “cut it out.” Give them a taste of the greatness of the God we serve, and reasons why they should put their trust in him. Instead of just telling them about the empty tomb, help them to experience its power.

By Dishon Mills, US Generations Ministry Coordinator

Gospel Reverb – Resurrection Fish Fry w/ Jeff McSwain

Resurrection Fish Fry w/ Jeff McSwain

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Listen in as host, Anthony Mullins and Dr. Jeff McSwain, an author and the founder and former Executive Director of Reality Ministries in Durham, North Carolina, unpack these lectionary passages:

May 1 –  3rd Sunday of Easter
John 21:1-19 “Resurrection Fish Fry”
40:07

May 8 – 4th Sunday of Easter
John 10:22-30 “One Love”
54:47

May 15 – 5th Sunday of Easter
John 13:31-35 “The New Commandment”
01:06:44

May 22 – 6th Sunday of Easter
John 14:23-29 “Peace Be With You”
01:11:03

May 29 – 7th Sunday of Easter
John 17:20-26 “We Are One”
01:20:19

If you get a chance to rate and review the show, that helps a lot. And invite your fellow preachers and Bible lovers to join us!

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Program Transcript


Resurrection Fish Fry w/ Jeff McSwain

Welcome to the Gospel Reverb podcast. Gospel Reverb is an audio gathering for preachers, teachers, and Bible thrill-seekers. Each month, our host, Anthony Mullins, will interview a new guest to gain insights and preaching nuggets mined from select passages of scripture, and that month’s Revised Common Lectionary.

The podcast’s passion is to proclaim and boast in Jesus Christ, the one who reveals the heart of God, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. And now onto the episode.


Anthony: Hello friends, and welcome to the latest episode of Gospel Reverb. Gospel Reverb is a podcast devoted to bringing you insights from scripture, found in the Revised Common Lectionary, and sharing commentary from a Christ-centered and Trinitarian view.

I’m your host Anthony Mullins. And it’s my delight to welcome this month’s guest, Dr. Jeff McSwain. Jeff is the founder and former Executive Director of Reality Ministries in Durham, North Carolina, a ministry which fosters friendships amongst people of all abilities marked by mutuality, authenticity, and the reality of Christ’s love for all.

He’s also in the process of launching a new ministry initiative called Experience Reality (which he may tell us a bit about.) Jeff is the author of two books, The Movements of Grace and Simul Sanctification. Ad his third book, Living to God, releases later this year. Jeff earned a PhD from St Andrews, where he studied with the likes of one of our favorite theologians here on the podcast, Alan Torrance.

And I personally keenly remember the first time I met Jeff, and we were talking over a meal, and I told him, I don’t know if he’s a theologian or a practitioner. And in saying that I knew he was both, which is a good place and space to be!

Jeff, thank you for joining us today. Welcome to the podcast. And for those in our listening audience, who may not be familiar with you and your work, tell us a bit about yourself. What are you up to these days?

Jeff: Thank you, Anthony. It’s a real joy to be with you. I consider you to be a dear friend. And I hate that we haven’t had a chance to hang out as much in recent years. But when I think of you, I think of you and Elizabeth, really as representing a whole slew of friends—just hundreds of friends from GCI in particular—who I’ve grown to know and love over the years. And so, if anybody from GCI is listening to this, know that I’m thinking fondly of you too, as I talk with Anthony today.

So yes, thank you for the introduction. I’ll tell you a little bit more about Experience Reality at some point, but I am really excited about the book coming out soon. During COVID (I guess we’re still in COVID, aren’t we?) but during those days when things were really shut down, I found some time to write and did feel the Spirit prompting me to write some things that I think will build on what I’ve written before.

I didn’t really set out to write any more books, but there’s something in me just compelling me in that direction, or someone in me compelling me in that direction, I’d like to think. So you mentioned the title Living to God. That title is actually—we’ve scrapped it as an overall title for the two books.

The two books that’ll be coming out in tandem are gonna be released in two different years, but they’re really two parts of the same work. And I had the brilliant idea of saying, let’s have a pithy arch-over kind of title, overwriting title for the other two titles. And my Cascade Books editor, Charlie Collier, was like, “Jeff, I think that’s a little too busy. I think you got too much going on there. You’ve got an overarching title and then you’ve got a title and a subtitle for each of the two volumes.”

And so, “living to God” is really the scarlet thread of the whole two volume set. And I’ll tell you why. But the first book is entitled, Hidden in Contradiction: Humanity in Christ Before, During, and After the Fall. And the second book is called The Goodness of Judgment: The Ministry of Christ’s Cross for a Hurting World.

So, we can talk more about the second volume, another time perhaps, but this whole idea of living to God is something that has really blessed me as it comes from Romans 6. The scripture says (in most translations) it says,

The death he died, he died for sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God. [verse 10]

(I should know that verse since it’s, like I said, the theme of the whole two books, but anyway.)

The death he died, he died to sin once for all; the life he lives, he lives to God. In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin and alive to God. [verses 10-11]

That’s how most translations have it. But technically, it’s: count yourselves dead to sin and living to God, which gives it a lot more dynamic sense. It’s actually the same word that’s used when we’re talking about the quick and the dead. So, Anthony, I can say, you’re pretty quick. But in theological terms, what I mean would be, you’re quick in the sense that you are living to God.

And I believe that because every single person is created in Jesus Christ as Ephesians 2:10 says,

We are created in Christ Jesus to do the good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

(That verse gets left off of Ephesians 2:8-9 quite a bit.) But to think about that, to be created in Christ means that you are living to God. And the verse is encouraging us, Paul is imploring us to reckon ourselves as such. Reckon yourselves, therefore, consider yourselves therefore as dead to sin and living to God in Christ. I think there’s a lot of power in that because really the scope of that statement is one that covers all of humanity.

And so, the whole book is related to this idea that we’re created in Christ and that we are living to God. Of course, that’s not all that’s going on; there are the things that complicate that, but that really is the foundation. As Paul says in 1 Corinthians, there no other foundation [3:11.] And that’s the foundation that gives us as human beings our foundness in spite of our lostness.

Anthony: One of the complications that I think you address in the book and comes to mind as I hear you talking about this, sometimes what we see in other human beings and in ourselves, quite frankly, it doesn’t look like we’re living to God. And one of the topics you address in the book—and a subject you and I have discussed through the years—is the duplicitous behavior (and of course, subsequent fallout) we sometimes see in leaders in the Christian faith. We will sometimes say it’s a fall from grace, which really is a theological misnomer because if we could fall from grace, we’d all be in a heap of trouble. Right? And so, in some ways we’d fall into grace, but nevertheless, a lot of damage has been incurred by behavior of people with influence.

And we know the names recently: Ravi Zacharias, Mark Driscoll, Bill Hybels, Jean Vanier. And these are men of consequence because of their enormous reach and influence and the things they did for good. So, what are we to think of these men? How do we theologically process their actions, especially in the wake of the hurt they caused?

Jeff: Well, that’s the question of the day for all of us really. In some individual types of scenarios like those—all men that you mentioned—that’s the kind of the micro aspect of each human being, but it’s also true in our world at large. God created the world good and humanity, very good. And is that completely displaced by the fall? Or even once one becomes a Christian, is that displaced—falls from grace, is that an undoing of Genesis 1, as it’s been revealed in recreation (as someone maybe might claim after baptism or after giving one’s life to Christ or coming to faith) is there now all of a sudden, a return back to the pre-conversion state?

Are there two things going on? Are there two things going on in one space or do we have to have a kind of a replacement theory or a displacement theory? We often use that theory when it comes to conversion. I use the word (I used the color language, the language red and green, because they’re opposite on the color wheel) red to count for the flesh and for us as corrupted, fallen human individuals who are under the curse of original sin, and green to talk about the blessing that we have in our creation and redemption.

And oftentimes we have a tendency to think because of the fall, we’re nothing but red. And then we give our lives to Christ or come to faith, we’re nothing but green. So then when something like this happens, we began to wonder. Something like happens with one of these prominent Christian leaders who abuses someone or falls from grace in such a way that it’s absolutely horrific that many Christians would never, you would never see doing such a thing as this.

Then you have to ask the question, did they fall back into the red zone? And did they leave the green zone? Or are there two things happening in the one space? And that really requires us to go back to theological interpretation. Green is a predominant color in my book, obviously, because I use this as a way to try to communicate that there really are green and red dimensions in every human being.

It’s not a dualism, it’s more of a duality. And I use the word picture—I’m trying to use lots of word pictures. Somebody said recently, “I think, Jeff, you might have used too many.” I had three or four metaphors going on in my head in one chapter because of all the illustrations.

And that might be one of the weaknesses of my book. I don’t know, but I’m trying to give lots of illustrations to help pastors to be able to grasp these concepts. And the target audience is really pastors and armchair theologians. It might not be for the layperson directly, but hopefully pastors can translate it to their flock in such a way that can make sense and really help people to understand this duality that we have operating within us.

But the placemat, if you’ve ever seen like an elementary school craft where you take a whole piece of green paper and a whole piece of red paper. And you cut them into strips and then weave them into a placemat.  They’re two wholes, the whole red piece of paper and the whole green piece of paper are there, but they’re woven into one piece, into one placemat.

And I use that in what I call placemat anthropology, to describe these two things that are going on. But it’s not just a green and a red aspect that are going on. It’s a total green. Remember there are two complete pages that exist in the one person. So, there’s a green and a total red, and this is taken from [Karl] Barth’s theology of the simul.

And he believes that there are two total men in the one man, or there’s the one man of the two total men. (And forgive the non-gender-inclusive language, but that’s the way he puts it.) So, we have to ask in a question, like Jean Vanier, for instance, what’s going on there?

The red is obviously really raging and has caused a lot of damage for Vanier, who’s now passed. But for his victims and collateral damage and trauma for them, that they’ll have to live with the rest of their lives. And it’s very, very serious. And it’s not something that can be just sloughed off because Vanier is totally green. But I believe in relation to—and forgive me for using that kind of language, totally green and totally red, for personifying it. But that’s the way that the language comes across in the book and hopefully helpfully.

But we have to ask the question, is Jean Vanier because of his wicked acts, nothing but wicked? Jean Vanier was really an inspiration to a lot of people in the community of people with and without intellectual disabilities. If you don’t know who Jean Vanier is—for instance, the Reality [Ministries] staff read every book Jean Vanier ever wrote.

And he wrote in collaboration with other folks too, like Stanley Hauerwas and others, to try to communicate the integrity and worth of every human being as created by God. And he was a man of peace and a man of gentleness, ostensibly. Is he those things? Well, in Christ, yes. In his flesh? Absolutely not!

And when that happened and when those disclosures hit the news, it was jolting. It was jolting for all of us in the Reality [Ministries] community who knew Jean Vanier, not just personally, but in his writings. And the double life of a man like this, it floored us.

It was one of those things where some people were like, I don’t even want to ever look at one of his books again, much less read one of his books. Maybe we should even burn his books. I don’t think anybody said that, but that was kind of the feeling that people had, the woundedness of feeling the wounds of those directly wounded by Vanier and grieving the victims’ losses at his hands.

It was one of those contradictions that you can’t even get your mind around. The extremes were so great. So, to make a claim that Jean Vanier was 100% good, but also 100% evil, and that those two things exist, not only in Jean Vanier, but in all of us. It doesn’t make all of us abusers in the same way Vanier was. It doesn’t make—if that’s true for a pedophile, it doesn’t make all of us pedophiles or et cetera.

But what it does do, is it allows us to take seriously some scripture passages that maybe we have spun in a different way before. When Jesus says,

If you who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children [Matthew 7:11]

That’s a shocking statement! He almost acknowledging there that there is evil. He knew that was in a person and he didn’t trust us in our flesh. At the same time, he knew what was in a person in regard to how he had created us. And he knew that to be totally good. But what I find us doing a lot of times is trying to address these situations through more of a zero-sum construct, Anthony.

It’s like (and you and I have talked about this before) but it’s more like, let’s grade this based on percentages. And a zero-sum is when the two numbers equal a hundred percent. So maybe I’m 80% good and 20% bad, or 50% good and 50% bad, or whatever.

And that scale oscillates, but it oscillates according to what we experience and how we think of ourselves and how others might think of us. But those are dangerous grounds to base anything on because one day I might think I’m really up in the scale. Another day, I might think I’m really down. Some days, I might think I’m off the scale altogether, or we might think Jean Vanier’s off the scale altogether in the red direction.

And so, what do we do? Well to look at the two totals and recognize that each person is totally righteous and totally wicked, allows us to be able to theologically by faith recognize that those two things are true in every person. And yet they manifest differently in different ways and at different times and in different ages.

But to me that’s better. It’s like we have two choices. We can either spin our sinfulness. And make it better than it is. In other words, I’m something less than a hundred percent sinful. You follow me? So, we could either spin our sinfulness like that. Or we could maximize the two totals and know that there’s not a symmetry. They’re not equal, but that the two 100%s are actually asymmetrical.

I find the latter to be much better. Because then we’re not locked into a place when we do something grievous or when we catch ourselves acting in the flesh (thought, word, or deed), instead of saying, “Gosh, I can’t tell anybody about that because if I do, they’ll think I’m not even a Christian.”

So, it paralyzes us and keeps us from living transparent lives. And it really locks us into our own corner where there’s not that balm of confession that we really need, confession to one another and confession to the Lord. So, what we end up doing then is we suppress, we don’t want anyone to know, so we suppress, or we repress.

And then and this is a great quote by Elizabeth O’Connor. If you don’t mind me reading this, this is from the book. I think a couple things that you mentioned that you wanted to talk about, it might be fun for me to read a couple sections out of the book. Would that be okay? This is the first time I’ve ever done this publicly. So, if you see it come out in print and it’s a little different, that means the editor did something that probably made it better.

But anyway, she said, Elizabeth O’Connor says it this way,

By an awareness that we have more than one self, we gain “the detachment and distance that we need to name and understand all the happenings in us. It is a simple handle for identifying the contradictions and ambivalences that Scripture and Dostoevsky” present to us. “If I say ‘I am jealous,’” continues O’Connor, and it “describes the whole of me . . . the completeness of the statement makes me feel contemptuous of myself. It is little wonder that I fear letting another know when my own identity with the feeling is such that it describes the totality of who I am.” However, “if I respect the plurality in myself, [I] no longer see my jealous self as the whole of me.”109

It’s really critical, Anthony. And if we see these two selves at work, then when we do something really bad, it doesn’t define us completely. It’s still really, really bad. In fact, I often say, I’m getting ready to tell you how good grace is, but let me warn you, it makes sin really bad. But by this ability to recognize these two totals that are going on inside the one person, I can actually call that out within the safe confines of knowing that the green—the reality of who I really am in Christ—is deeper and wider and stronger than that. That gives me a secure place and a safe place to where then I can confess those things.

She goes on to say, and here’s the other warning she gives about not thinking of yourself as just totally good because this is the other factor going on that, that you mentioned in the beginning, these other factors are more than just living to God in Christ Jesus is going on.

The opposite imbalance results if we let the pendulum swing to the other side, notes O’Connor: “when we are identified with only the good in us, we exclude from integration the objectionable. It is kept out of consciousness and cut off from acceptance. Though at first glance it may seem a better situation to be identified with good than with evil . . . what we repress in ourselves, (and catch this last sentence) we will project onto the neighbor and try to destroy there.”

What we repress in ourselves, we will project onto the neighbor and try to destroy there. We have to be aware that both of these things are going on. To go too far in one direction or the other and to discount the total green, means grace is not as good. To go too far in the other direction and say, somebody is only 80% evil means sin is not as bad, but we have to keep those two together.

We can’t allow for the fact of a zero-sum game that puts us in the middle where grace is not as good and sin is not as bad. Does that make sense?

Anthony: It does. And it seems to me, Jeff, that one of the ways that we get an imbalance in this view is we will build others up and look at them as heroes, like the names of the men that I previously stated.

And then when we see the evil, the flesh being lived out, then suddenly it’s like the whole rug has been pulled out from underneath their humanity. And we don’t know what to do with it, as opposed to seeing that just look within, there is something raging within me. That is not what I want—me personally, Anthony Mullins.

Jeff:  You, Anthony?

Anthony: Yeah, exactly. I know it’s a shocker. But that’s really helpful because, as you described Jeff, we tend to hide and not live authentic lives unless we can be honest in a way that has the highest Christology, the highest view of grace or else we will hide. And we will hide from ourselves and hide from others.

Jeff: Yeah. I think Barth talks about the fact that there’s the “wolf” in each one of us and when things happen outside of us—you know we have a lot of things going on inside of us; we know the “wolf” is active—but a lot of times we don’t act out in a way that on the exterior hurts people really badly.

But when we do, Barth talks about those are examples of the “wolf” getting off the chain. And I think the “wolf” gets off the chain sometimes in my life, for instance, when I get interrupted because then I can’t put my best foot forward. And all of a sudden, I get interrupted, and I’ll lash out or I’ll have a moment, where I’ll act in the flesh in such a way that I’m like, oh my gosh, what is that saying about what’s underneath? What is that volcanic eruption saying about what’s there?

For instance, in the book Caste, Isabelle Wilkerson talks about the fact that when it comes to racism, there’s a lot of things underneath. She talks about the toxins that are under the tundra in these remote sections that are starting to kill the deer, but nobody knows it until you see the by-products of it. The reindeer are dying well. What’s going on? There’s something underneath the soil. The same type of thing happens for us.

We see something like that where the so-called “wolf” gets off the chain, and we recognize that, oh gosh, there’s more there. What do I do with that? Do I want to look at that more deeply? Or do I want to ignore that and just hope that it was a one off?

And so, I think that you’re exactly right. This is something that can be really, really helpful in relation to building healthier lives as individuals, as persons. And also, just better church communities, better worldwide communities, as we consider that aspect of repression and suppression that leads to that projection that causes us to draw a real deep line of us versus them.

Anthony: Yeah. No, that’s good. And there is so much to unpack there. And so, what I encourage our listeners to do is when the book comes out, get it and wrestle with this view of anthropology. I think it’s a faithful witness and helpful in the discussion of what we do—not only with the duplicitous behavior of others—but ourselves and how can we rightly name that.

Jeff: Can I say one thing more about that, Anthony? Sorry to interrupt, but I don’t want the listeners to think when you mentioned the word anthropology a minute ago—yes, this book has a lot of anthropological implications. But I want folks to know how Christologically rooted it is.

In other words, it’s really more a book about Christology than it is about anthropology, but it’s a Christological anthropology. And it’s important to recognize that because everything that we’re saying about us as individuals, I believe is derivative from what we see happening in the person of Jesus Christ, the one who not only took on our sinful flesh in his assumption, but also who became sin, which is not anything that any of us, even in our worst moments could actually become, but he was made sin.

So that we might know that we are the righteousness of God. But the two totals that he took on as the “Righteous One” (capital R, capital O) and as the one who was made sin for our sakes, and who entered into that with one heart, he and the Father into this incarnational, salvific redemption, that those two totals were obviously at play in Jesus Christ life as well.

And not just at the cross, because I don’t think 2 Corinthians 5 is about just the cross. But as Calvin would say, Christ carried the cross throughout his whole lifetime. The whole point, being that at these moments of decision, you see Christ wrestling. Do I go with this? Am I … can I? He’s wrestling with the flesh.

What flesh is it? It’s the flesh that he assumed. It’s the flesh that we wrestle with. And every time we turn left in our sinfulness, Christ at every crossroads turned right. And he sanctified us as he went. But the point being is that he wrestled with these very things.

No temptation has overtaken us that is not common to man.

I would say that 1 Corinthians 10:13 verse, really Paul is talking about Christ. No temptation has overtaken us that is not common to Christ, the Son of Man, and therefore common to man, common to persons, common to human beings. And I think that we have to recognize that everything goes back to Jesus Christ and how God has revealed himself in the intimate way that he has in the Word becoming flesh and making his dwelling among us.

It all starts there. So, any anthropology that I do in regard to these two totals, if it’s not connected to Jesus Christ. (And perhaps we could talk—if you want to read how that ties into things like the Caledonian definition of Jesus Christ being totally God and totally man.) In my derivative of that, is that Jesus Christ also represents total true humanity and total false humanity in himself, as that branch is off from the original Caledonian formula or Caledonian definition of 451. But if we don’t know it comes from Christ, if any of the anthropology I’m talking about doesn’t come from Christ, it’s not worth anything, not worth one smidgen of value.

And I want to make sure before we talk about—I know we have some scripture passages that you said you want to talk about—but I really want to home in on this idea of the double movement of grace to prepare us for all the exegeses that we have time for. And because I think that this really frames everything that we’re talking about.

I can do that as we go through the passages. But I’ll also wanted to mention, (because I’m this way when it comes to the Spirit, I see things and I think, that was a divine coincidence) I was having a theology group with some of the Reality [Ministries] staff guys and some of the folks that live in our neighborhood, the North Street neighborhood. And this morning, we’re going through each of the essays in the book and talking about it.

And this one was entitled “Unshakable Participants.” And I thought as I was reading it to myself, I thought as I was reading it, this is what I should mention. As I’m thinking and praying about what to talk about in the podcast, what opportunities might arise, what questions might be asked, this, I thought, seemed pertinent to anything else and frames everything else in a way that might be helpful.

Do you mind if I read a little bit of that, Anthony?

Anthony: Go for it. We do need to get to the passages, but if it would be better on the front end, that’s fine. Let’s do it.

Jeff: All right. So, I don’t want to read too much, but at the same time, what you mentioned earlier about movements of grace, I think needs explanation so that we can then look at the passages and see how they fit in. Here’s a few paragraphs:

For example, imagine a big, leather-bound book laying open on a table. Let’s say the book’s title is, Humanity’s Relationship with God. The left-side page is humanity and the right-side page is God. Jesus Christ, as the mediator, is both pages in himself, representing humanity to God and at the same time God to humanity. Where, then, are we located? We may look at the “humanity page” and see nothing but Jesus Christ. But when we look again, we discover that our humanity is hidden in Christ’s humanity, written into his script. We cannot see it directly, apart from revelation. Only with the lens of the Spirit can we see our faithfulness to God inside of Christ’s; our obedience, worship, and service are all there, inside of Christ’s. Our life is there in the fullness of the Spirit, living to God in Christ.

We go wrong when, rather than see ourselves already in the story, we believe that we need to fit ourselves into it. It is as if we feel the need to insert a page with our name and script on it. We might falsely adopt the logic that Christ makes our agency possible, but that it is up to us to capitalize on what Christ has done by adding our page into the crease of the binding as deeply as we can.

At first, we might think we have succeeded. After all, the inserted page might look like it is a part of the bound manuscript. But when turbulence hits, and things go awry (when the book is turned upside and shaken vigorously) the page will fall out. Only what is bound remains. But we know this already, that is why we tried so hard to push the page deep into the crease of the binding. Deep down, we know that if we are the ones who inserted our own page into God’s story of our lives, our assurance is suspect and our empowerment in the Spirit strangled. The more convinced we are of our identity as bound in Christ (green), the more empowered we will be to break the bondages and addictions of the flesh (red). Unfortunately, undue emphasis is often given to the “how” of the latter than to the “who” of the former. Our life in Christ is properly about the who-who question, who Christ is and therefore who we are, before the how-to of breaking free of bondage and the addictions of the flesh.

That’s the double movement of grace in which we’re all included. And in the discussion, one of the Duke Divinity grads, who’s on our Reality [Ministries] staff, he said, “What I kept thinking of during this chapter,” or during this reading (I’m calling him the essays “readings” right now.) He said, “I just kept thinking about Jesus Christ being on that page. And me being so preoccupied with wondering if my name is in the book of life, but then it hit me. All the names are in the name of Jesus Christ, and that the joy of losing our lives and our agency to find our agency in its most personalized way in Christ is a life-changing discovery.”

All we need are those two pages and Barth calls this the “real law.” It’s the law of Christ. [Dietrich] Bonhoeffer calls it “the law of the real.” But this is what we use to interpret every single passage of scripture, is who is Jesus Christ? Who are we in Jesus Christ? Before we think about the imperatives at all, we really focus in on these indicatives. And so, all we need are those two movements and we discover ourselves in that way.

And I think every scripture goes back to that framework. So, I appreciate the opportunity, but I was gonna say that at some point, no matter what scripture we talked about. So, I thought let’s get the frame out there so we can start reading scripture in the Christological frame, which also defines our anthropology.

Anthony: Yeah, let’s do it. Let’s get to the “who” question in the five passages that we have to unpack together from the RCL:

  • John 21:1-19 “Resurrection Fish Fry,” 3rd Sunday of Easter (May 1)
  • John 10:22-30 “One Love,” 4th Sunday of Easter (May 8)
  • John 13:31-35 “The New Commandment,” 5th Sunday of Easter (May 15)
  • John 14:23-29 “Peace Be with You,” 6th Sunday of Easter (May 22)
  • John 17:20-26 “We Are One,” 7th Sunday of Easter (May 29)

Let me read the first passage that we have this month. It’s John 21:1-9. It’s a Revised Common Lectionary passage for the third Sunday of Easter on May the 1st.

After these things Jesus showed himself again to the disciples by the Sea of Tiberias; and he showed himself in this way. Gathered there together were Simon Peter, Thomas called the Twin, Nathanael of Cana in Galilee, the sons of Zebedee, and two others of his disciples. Simon Peter said to them, “I am going fishing.” They said to him, “We will go with you.” They went out and got into the boat, but that night they caught nothing.

Just after daybreak, Jesus stood on the beach; but the disciples did not know that it was Jesus. Jesus said to them, “Children, you have no fish, have you?” They answered him, “No.” He said to them, “Cast the net to the right side of the boat, and you will find some.” So they cast it, and now they were not able to haul it in because there were so many fish. That disciple whom Jesus loved said to Peter, “It is the Lord!” When Simon Peter heard that it was the Lord, he put on some clothes, for he was naked, and jumped into the sea. But the other disciples came in the boat, dragging the net full of fish, for they were not far from the land, only about a hundred yards off.

When they had gone ashore, they saw a charcoal fire there, with fish on it, and bread. 10 Jesus said to them, “Bring some of the fish that you have just caught.” 11 So Simon Peter went aboard and hauled the net ashore, full of large fish, a hundred fifty-three of them; and though there were so many, the net was not torn. 12 Jesus said to them, “Come and have breakfast.” Now none of the disciples dared to ask him, “Who are you?” because they knew it was the Lord. 13 Jesus came and took the bread and gave it to them, and did the same with the fish. 14 This was now the third time that Jesus appeared to the disciples after he was raised from the dead. [NSRV]

Jeff, I couldn’t help but think of the movie Forest Gump when I was imagining Simon Peter jump out of the boat. If you remember the scene, Forest jumps in the water and he’s trying to swim to Lieutenant Dan, and here we see Peter doing something similar.

But as you’ve already mentioned, the primary question of theology and therefore the heralding of the gospel is: who is this God revealed in Jesus Christ? So, what do the actions, the words of Jesus in this passage tell us about the Triune God?

Jeff: What a great passage! It says it’s a third time and when you think about, there might have been an in-between encounter that Jesus had just with Simon Peter before this. 1 Corinthians 15 seems to mention, he appeared to Peter, so I don’t know if this is the one that Paul’s talking about or not.

But the point is that we all know that Peter is fresh off of these three denials. And we’ve taught lots of sermons about [how] the three denials match the three questions, and that Peter had oddly put his clothes on before jumping in.

I have some thoughts about this passage that relate to what we’re talking about. When I think of a fishing net, first of all, I think of a matrix. I think of the placemat. And I think of the fact that, here are these fishermen—remember when Jesus first stepped into Peter’s boat? He was like, get away from me, Lord, I’m a sinful man. And Jesus said, don’t worry about it. Sinful people are all I got to work with, so I’m stepping into your boat.

But the point from the very beginning, there’s this contradiction in Simon Peter that Jesus seeks to speak into. And, if you wanted to think about this in theological, metaphorical terms, you could think of the fact of that net representing the tangled and conflicted humanity of those men in the boat.

It’s interesting that, Jesus tells them, throw it over on the right side of the boat, and that there’s this abundance. There’s nothing on the left side, call that the red side. And then there’s this abundance on the other side. And the red side, it speaks to me as the bad tree cannot produce any fruit, nothing, no fruit. No good fruit can come from the bad tree. It’s absolutely nothing. We have nothing in our flesh to offer. Flesh gives birth to flesh, not the Spirit, and we have nothing to offer there.

And it’s interesting that, if you wanted to look at this as John does (he’s telling this story), there’s lots of layers to it. If you wanted to excavate some of the layers, we could talk about the fact that the flesh produces nothing but flesh. The bad tree produces nothing but bad fruit. There’s nothing.

Apart from me, you cannot do a thing. John 15:5

So, you’ve got that part. And then you’ve got this abundance. It comes from the other side, and that is in the abundance of the Spirit. It’s not a static red and green, at all. These are two determinations, two movements that are going in each of us at the degree of 180, Barth says. They’re absolutely oppositional to one another. And in the Spirit though, we go from green to green to green to green; we go from fullness to fullness to fullness to fullness. It’s not a zero-sum increase. It’s the increase of the fullness that we have manifesting in such a way that it goes from completeness to completeness.

That’s what Peter experienced and all those guys experience in this catch of fish. That’s the first thing. And yet Peter still puts his clothes back on, which to me symbolizes that he’s still living in the shame and in the Genesis 2 and 3, as opposed to the Genesis 1 account. He’s clothed with shame, just as God mercifully clothed Adam and Eve after their shameful acts.

And so, this is interesting. And yet when Simon [Peter] gets there, he is exposed by Jesus, but in the most tender and loving way, allowing him to be reconciled, not only to him, but to one another—the disciples to one another.

Can you imagine? They were asking about each other at the table that night during the betrayal. Was it me, Lord? Was it me? Pointing at each other, wondering who it was. And even now they’re probably blaming each other. You ran away from Jesus. You ran away from Jesus. What about him? And then Jesus says, don’t worry about him; he has his own story here at the beach, on the fish fry day.

There’s a lot going on here, but one thing I want to hone in on before we jump is these three questions. Do you love me? 1 John tells us that we love God because he first loved us.

I believe in creation—and Julian of Norwich says this plain as day, it’s a beautiful passage—that when God created us, he loved us, and we loved him. Now, of course, that’s the case. When God created us, called us very good, he loved us, and we loved him. And what my book title means when it says created in Christ, Humanity in Christ Before, During, and After the Fall, means that total green never diminishes. Original sin is bad, but it’s not as deep and strong as original belonging.

The Spirit is deeper than the flesh, and the green is deeper than the red, so to speak. And what that tells me is that when Peter says, Lord, you know that I love you, he’s actually speaking truth back to God as a representative of every human being. And when we speak truth back to God, to me, that’s repentance.

It’s repentance to speak truth back to God because we know we can’t make the truth by our repentance, but we can participate in it. So, “you know that I love you,” harkens back really to Peter’s true self, which always loves God. And my contention is that every single person—no matter how villainous or how demonic their actions are in the flesh—every single person is living to God, loving the Lord, living to God in Christ Jesus (which means it’s moving from Jesus to the Father in the Spirit), loving the Lord with all their heart, soul, mind, and strength.

Every single person is doing that unconsciously before consciously. That’s what the ontology of the vicarious humanity of Christ teaches us. And that cannot be short circuited. That’s happening! That’s happening for every one of these disciples. Peter now is participating in that, “Lord, you know that I love you.”

Then Jesus says, okay, you’re onto something here. Let me just remind you that there’s transformative actions that cannot help but issue forth from the identity that I’ve given you in myself. And of course, Peter’s life was changed. You see that in the first chapters of Acts; the turnaround is absolutely amazing! And it’s not just the resurrection itself. It’s the love! It’s the love that changes him. And so, to me that’s really where it all begins for Simon Peter and his ministry.

Anthony: We see (and I heard you mention it) abundance, “right side of the boat” abundance. Just take a moment, Jeff, and describe the abundance of our God that you see born in this passage.

What can we take away about who God is and his abundance?

Jeff: It’s funny that they count the fish, isn’t it?

Anthony: It is! 153.

Jeff: I don’t know exactly what that means, but somebody might know [or] do a numerical study on that. And come up with what that means for John when he wrote that, when he recorded the number that day or from that tradition.

But I don’t know, but I do know that’s a lot. And I really think that it actually gives abundance a bad rap in a way, because it only represents the unlimited abundance of what Paul talks about in 2 Corinthians when he is talking about, from glory to glory [3:18]. One degree of glory to another sounds like a zero-sum game, but the actual words are from glory to glory, transformed into his likeness from glory to glory, likeness, image, likeness.

He talks in that same area of 2 Corinthians about Jesus Christ is the image of God. We’re created in the image; we’re created in Jesus Christ. And the abundance that comes from just who we are in Christ—which is the same as who we are in the Spirit. There’s never a point where, who we are in Christ is the foundation, and then we have to add the Spirit in later as if the Spirit is an add-on. It goes back to the idea that to do that is to diminish the homoousion, the oneness of being between the Son and the Spirit. Who we are in the Son and who we are in the  Spirit are not two different things.

Fullness of the Spirit is included in the total righteousness that we have in Christ. It’s not that we’re a gas tank on half full, and that then grows up to—that’s taking a worldly metaphor and undercutting the totality of who the Spirit is and how she has given us this abundance and the fullness that has been poured out on all flesh, as Pentecost bears witness to.

So, yes, this is abundance, baby! This is more abundance than we could shake a stick at. This is more abundance than we could imagine.

No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind can understand what God has prepared for those who love him. [1 Corinthians 2:9]

I used to think, okay am I one of the ones who loves him? And then I began to realize, yes! Because of what Jesus Christ and his vicarious humanity has done for every single human being, I love God. God loves me, and I love him. We love God because he first loved us is a literal statement. It’s not that God loved us first; now it’s up to us. Let’s see if we can love him back.

No, we love God because God first loved us. That is the ontology. It starts with God. And then it’s a reciprocal human response to God in the mediation of Christ. That is the template for every single human being and every single human relationship, every single human action.

Anthony: And there it is.

Jeff, let’s move on to our second passage, which is John 10:22-30. It’s the Revised Common Lectionary passage for the 4th Sunday of Easter, May 8.

Brother, would you do us the honors of reading this particular passage?

Jeff: Alright.

22 Then came the Festival of Dedication at Jerusalem. It was winter, 23 and Jesus was in the temple courts walking in Solomon’s Colonnade. 24 The Jews who were there gathered around him, saying, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Messiah, tell us plainly.”

25 Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.” [NIV]

Anthony: Based on what you’ve already said, Jeff (in part you’ve already answered this), but the way we read this passage, Jesus said that the Jews don’t belong to his sheep.

So how do we reconcile the statement when our theological imaginations want to believe that every person belongs to God? What do we do with it?

Jeff: They’re definitely not acting like his sheep. They’re getting ready to slaughter the shepherd! It’s interesting. I think that the way Jesus talks—he also says the Pharisees are children of the devil; they’re not children of Abraham. He uses this kind of hyperbole to let people know that, of course they’re children of Abraham, the Pharisees. But he uses this hyperbole. (And he says that even later in that same passage in John 8, I think.)

But the point is that when you’re not acting like it, your actions—is Jean Vanier wicked? Yes! That’s not all that we can say though, about Jean Vanier. And so, when you adopt this Christological anthropology as the lens with which to read scripture, then we can say, in their flesh, they’re acting like children of the devil. They are children of the devil. They are not; they don’t belong to Jesus.

They’re the types of people that come up to Jesus and say, I did this in your name and that in your name. And it says here, Jesus does these miracles in the Father’s name. They say, I did this in your name and that in your name. And Jesus said, get away from me. I never knew you. [Matthew 7:22-23]

He doesn’t know them in the flesh, in a sense. He doesn’t know them in the flesh because that’s not who they are. The flesh is only parasitic to the indicative truth of who we are in Jesus Christ. And Jesus draws those delineations quite often. And they’re meant to show the severity of the anti-reality, the antichrist. Sometimes I might say the unreality, but “unreality” sometimes can communicate that the bad things aren’t really happening or that they don’t hurt. No! They hurt like hell, but that’s because of the good news or the indicative in contrast to that. Yes, it hurts. The contrast is painful and deadly.

And this is an example of people who should have known better, who are actually hurting the sheep who are following Jesus, because they are acting in such an antichrist way. And their father is the devil in these existential actions; they’re showing this is the “wolf” off the chain.

They’re showing the flesh in the way that Jesus is here to eradicate such thing. That’s why he came, in order to destroy sin, death, and the devil. In Romans 6, right before the passage of living to God, it talks about our old selves were crucified with him [verse 6] (that goes along with Galatians 2:20).

We can live out of one or the other of the two totals. If I stand up in front of you and say, I’m a 100% righteous, I’d get laughed out of the room, especially by people who know me. But if I stand up and say, I’m a 100% evil, I’d get laughed out of the room too. That’s not what we see, like you said, but our actions do manifest from the two totals.

If we walk by sight and not by faith, we won’t get it. We’ll judge people by their actions and define them by their mistakes. And so, Jesus is not doing that here. He’s not making an ontological claim about these people. And if it is an ontological claim, it’s the pseudo-ontology, the anti-ontology because as Barth says, there is no ontological godlessness. Absolutely not!

The only godlessness that can happen is a pseudo-ontology at best, which would be just very, very deep, deeper than we can fathom, more evil than we could ever comprehend, but not as deep as grace.

And where sin increases grace increases all the more. [Romans 5:20]

So, it always has to be in that asymmetrical relation. And I think that, when Jesus is talking about the sheep, he’s not talking about it in categorical terms, in terms of who’s a sheep and who’s not. Who’s elect, and who’s reprobate. He’s talking about it more in terms of how this is playing out and calling them out on it.

When he says he doesn’t know these people who are doing these things in his name (to use that other passage,) he knows them on his terms. He knows them on terms of grace. He knows them on terms that they are created in Christ, living to God. And here Jesus Christ himself, of all people, knows that. But he also knows—because he knows that so well—he also knows sin really well and sees the contrast and calls it out when he sees it.

And that actually is a real blessing. If we can really get into our bones, how good grace is, we’ll be better able to call sin out in ourselves and see it in the world. It’ll be more exposed; the contrast will be more apparent. There’s not a lot of contrast in a zero-sum game because the line’s so arbitrary and it just gets mixed together.

But in a total-total—as Barth would say, the old man from top to toe and the new man from top to toe—then all of a sudden you see this conflict. But as Barth would say, it’s not a hopeless conflict or else we wouldn’t even have this conversation. But he [Barth] says, “I was and still am the old man. I am and will be the new man.”

We’re both of those in the present, but I was and still am the old man; I am and will be the new. But the two present tense “I am” statements in this life were together. They were together for the Pharisees. They’re together for these people in this passage. They’re together for every one of us now. They were together from Genesis 2:4 on, in my opinion. And that’s part of what I write about in the book.

Anthony: “The Father and I are one.”

Jeff, that feels fairly weighty, and we have talked about it. Anything more that you want to add about the oneness, the sameness, the substance of Father in Jesus.

Jeff: Of course, I always go back to TF Torrance and the Torrances. Studying under Alan, of course, I asked him if I could do it on his uncle and his dad, JB. And he was kind of shy about it, and he goes, yeah, that’s fine. I think Alan’s his own theologian and his own thinker.

But it was a privilege for me to be able to do my work under Alan, and I have the highest regard for him. I think about [how the] Torrances talk—and I’m sure other people who’ve interviewed, probably talk about Torrance—about there is no God behind the back of Jesus Christ. There’s no God behind God, back in the shadows with a frown on his face. And Jesus is the nice guy with a smile on his face. We really have to be able to trust that the God we see in Jesus Christ is God. And the Yahweh of the Old Testament is perfectly revealed to us in Jesus Christ, the God who created the world, who came into the world and the world didn’t recognize him.

The light that gives light to every person was coming into the world. This is the God who became flesh. And so that we could know what God was really like. And that wiggle room that often gets inserted between who God is and who Jesus is, has to go away. And that’s why Jesus says, guys, quit asking me to see the Father; he who’s seen me as seen the Father. And to really be able to trust that picture.

That’s also why, oftentimes, I call TF Torrance—and I came to Barth through TF and JB’s work—but I often call TF and JB, the godfathers of Reality Ministries, because it’s this whole paradigm that we’re talking about, this folding into the relationship that Christ has with the Father. The oneness that they have, that Jesus then, by adoption, we get to be included in his Sonship.

So, we’re not just included in God in a vague way. We’re included in the Son of the Father and in the Holy Spirit. And so, through the vicarious humanity of what Christ does in representing us, we really are able to enjoy that unity and oneness that’s derivative of the unity and oneness that Jesus has with the Father and Jesus has with the other persons in the holy Trinity as Son of God.

So yes, that oneness is critical, Anthony. And if we get away from that, then we come into all kinds of terrible theological train wrecks, about Jesus loves me, but I’m not too sure about God. Or maybe God loves me because Jesus loves me, but not really directly. Maybe he tolerates me because Jesus loves me, or Jesus died from me. But yeah, we could get into all the different bifurcations that come into play when it comes to getting rid of our or interpreting anything less than what the Nicene Creed calls the homoousion, the oneness of being between God the Father and the Son.

And then of course, Athanasius’s letter to Serapion is very clear that the homoousion is also related to the Holy Spirit. And that’s very critical for us in regard to this understanding of the total of who we are as human beings in Christ: we are full of the Spirit. We’re not just in Christ, but someday, maybe full of the Spirit.

And any expressions of fullness that we see, in those moments where we feel full of the Spirit. Or we say, that guy is full of the Spirit. Or we have a feeling in ourselves that we’re full of the Spirit. That’s the fullness that’s manifesting. It all comes from this idea of the real unity that we have by grace in the Son of God, which is derivative of that same unity that the Son has by nature with the Father.

Anthony: As I’ve heard said, everything hinges on it. Amen and amen.

Our next passage is John 13:31 – 35. It’s the Revised Common Lectionary passage for the 5th Sunday of Easter on May the 15th. And it reads:

31 When he had gone out, Jesus said, “Now the Son of Man has been glorified, and God has been glorified in him. 32 If God has been glorified in him, God will also glorify him in himself and will glorify him at once. 33 Little children, I am with you only a little longer. You will look for me; and as I said to the Jews so now I say to you, ‘Where I am going, you cannot come.’ 34 I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. 35 By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.” [NRSV]

Jesus didn’t say, you will know my disciples by their influence. He didn’t say, you will know my disciples by their pious stands and culture wars. He didn’t say, you’ll know my disciples by their admiration and use of strength in geopolitical scenes. Jesus said, you will know my disciples if they love one another.

Jeff, what do you want to say about this?

Jeff: Let’s start out with just the premise again: the Lord loves us, and we love the Lord. That’s the ontology of it. It also means that we love our neighbors, one to another. That love is also the ontology of it.

And all reconciliation then has to happen from reconciliation. It’s not a hypothetical. We start with reconciliation to move towards reconciliation. And so, when it comes to this idea of loving God and loving one another, we can start with that.

Jesus says later in John 15, that he dies for his friends. And in Romans 5, Paul talks about the fact Christ died for us while we were sinners and while we were enemies. So, are we friends or are we enemies of God? It says he dies for his friends. Another place says he dies for his enemies. Yes, doggone-it! He died for his friends because they turned into enemies, but they never have stopped being his friends.

And in this world, we’re enemies with one another in many ways. White people have been the enemy of black people in America. Full stop. And you wouldn’t blame any person of color for not trusting a white person in what they say or do. You wouldn’t blame them. Any time there’s a mutual relationship attested by both sides of friendship, then that’s the created and redeemed order manifesting.

But we have to also call out the many, many ways (macro and micro strands of the red) that we see that have kept us from that love that we have from one another and have destroyed a lot of—have been antithetical and anti-Christ actions and need to be repented and confessed in such a way that more of the indicative truth, the ontological truth of who we are in Christ, who we are with one another, can be manifested in this world in a way that brings hope and healing and can be the balm of Gilead on the wounds of so many that have been wounded by the “us versus them” economy of evil.

Anthony: Amen and amen.

John 14:23 – 29 is our next passage from the lectionary. It’s for the 6th Sunday of Easter, May the 22nd. And it reads:

Jesus answered him, “Those who love me will keep my word, and my Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. 24 Whoever does not love me does not keep my words; and the word that you hear is not mine, but is from the Father who sent me. 25 “I have said these things to you while I am still with you. 26 But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you everything, and remind you of all that I have said to you. 27 Peace I leave with you; my peace I give to you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled, and do not let them be afraid. 28 You heard me say to you, ‘I am going away, and I am coming to you.’ If you loved me, you would rejoice that I am going to the Father, because the Father is greater than I. 29 And now I have told you this before it occurs, so that when it does occur, you may believe. [NRSV]

And Jesus said that those who love him will keep his word. Okay. But on this side of the veil, new heaven, a new earth, all of us are falling short at keeping his word fully, subjectively, based on the way we see it. Though, you’ve already addressed that we are living to the Lord faithfully on the green side.

When we look at the depths of who we are, sometimes it feels like we’re not very pious. Paul talked about this thing that’s raging within him, that which he wants to do, he doesn’t do. And that, which he doesn’t want to do, he does. So what else is there to say about this, as we think through this particular passage?

Jeff: First of all, that Roman 7 passage is key. I do as the red self what I, as the green self, do not want to do. It’s the single subject there. You can’t lose the single subject of the two selves. My true self doesn’t need to repent, but my false self can’t repent. So, who has to repent? Jeff.

That’s the basic, bottom line. You can’t let the two selves fall apart into abstractions. They’re always considered within the one self, the one person of the two selves, the two selves of the one person.

And I think that Jesus is saying in these passages and John, like I said, is so nuanced here, but this is throughout scripture. Whoever does not love me does not obey my commandments. That’s exactly what we’ve been saying. Flesh gives birth to flesh. Flesh doesn’t love God. My red self doesn’t love God. My red self actually hates God. My red self is evil. My red self is the antichrist. So of course, that’s the case: whoever does not love me does not keep my commandments.

Whoever loves me, keeps my commandments. In other words, that’s the true self that we have. That is the person who obeys because Christ is obeying for us and therefore, whatever Christ is doing for us, we are doing with him. It’s not a hypothetical. It’s not a de jure, de facto. It’s not an objective that needs a subjective.

It’s not, let’s add the Spirit to it to make it actual. No, it’s all happening. It’s all happening in Jesus Christ. It’s all happening in ourselves as united with Jesus Christ. Those two things are going on. So what Jesus said there is imminently the case. What that means is when we go to war against somebody, we are killing our friends.

We are killing our friends. We are therefore also killing ourselves because to do violence against the economy of Jesus Christ in his vicarious humanity, is not just hurting Christ or breaking his laws. Because we are so intimately involved, we’re actually doing violence to our very self. We wouldn’t be able to say we were doing violence to ourself unless we were already intimately involved.

But because we’re so woven into it, and as Jillian of Norwich says, because we’re so knit in this knot with Christ, that anything we do with him is from him sourced in the vine, through the branches. Anything we do against him is the branches that are cut off and burned and thrown into the fire and destroyed. But Jesus Christ comprehends all of those aspects in his one person.

So, to go to war and to kill other people out of an “us versus them” mentality is to hurt Jesus Christ but is to hurt ourselves and is to kill our friends. If we started thinking of it in that direction, what it means to live in this world—and of course, Christ said, you’re gonna hear wars and rumors of war for a while. It’s gonna happen.

In this world, you will have tribulation, but be of good cheer, be encouraged for, I have overcome the world. [John 16:33]

Past tense. These two things have already been settled. They were settled in Genesis. They were revealed in Jesus Christ and now they’re being played out on the world stage and in the world stage of my home at 309.

But these things are being played out in such a way that we have a better framework to address just how bad sin and evil are. And also, to be able to address the brokenness of those who have been subjected by other people’s antichrist agency to lives of pain and oppression.

Anthony: Yeah, as you’re saying this, Jeff, we’re talking about war and rumor of war. And of course, right now, as we record this, there’s a war going on. And you’ve addressed this, that in war, nobody wins. Harm is done to the victim and the victimizer because we’re doing damage to ourselves.

So, what does that say about the peace that Jesus talks about in this pericope? He says he gives us his peace. What do we make of it? When it doesn’t look anything like peace right now, what do we do with it?

Jeff: Yeah. And when you think about just war doctrine, is there such a thing? You have to ask that question? Is there a way to get to the peace that is the reality? Again, we start with the fact that everybody knows God in Jesus Christ. And nobody knows God in the flesh. No one knows God.

And Jeremiah 31 points to the fact that they will all know me because the reality will be made manifest. They all know him in Jeremiah 31. They will all know him because they do all know him, but nobody knows the Father except the Son. Nobody knows the Son except the Father.

This is the baseline. And therefore, as Christ shares his knowledge of the Father with us, and we also with each other are sharing that knowledge. We can, as believers recognize that there is peace in that God is keeping truth with humanity. Humanity is keeping in the Son and the Son as humanity is keeping truth with the Father, there is Shalom.

There is peace and there is truth. There is truth and there’s grace and truth there. It’s not that Moses brought truth, and then Jesus brought grace. Moses brought the law, grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. That’s the mutual relationship of knowing one another in Christ, the mutual representation. The mutuality of loving one another in Christ and the mutuality of peace with one another are all rooted in the fact of what is real.

We live in a world where no matter how unreal, anti-real, and tragically manifest the events are, that we can live in the knowledge that it has not displaced or replaced the reality. The kingdom of God is still a dimension that’s in us and with us and that we are in. And that Hebraic understanding of holistic worldview has to be maintained in order to recognize that these are dimensions, as contrary as they are to one another and as painful as they are, they are dimensions.

And there is a reality, a winner in Jesus Christ as savior and Lord of all, the one who is peace personified.

Anthony: Yes, that’s good. Thank you for that.

And Jeff, hang with me little bit; we’re in the home stretch, man. One last pericope is John 17:20 – 26. It is the Revised Common Lectionary passage for the 7th Sunday of Easter, May the 29th. And it reads:

“I ask not only on behalf of these, but also on behalf of those who will believe in me through their word, 21 that they may all be one. As you, Father, are in me and I am in you, may they also be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22 The glory that you have given me I have given them, so that they may be one, as we are one, 23 I in them and you in me, that they may become completely one, so that the world may know that you have sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me. 24 Father, I desire that those also, whom you have given me, may be with me where I am, to see my glory, which you have given me because you loved me before the foundation of the world. 25 “Righteous Father, the world does not know you, but I know you; and these know that you have sent me. 26 I made your name known to them, and I will make it known, so that the love with which you have loved me may be in them, and I in them.” [NRSV]

Whew! That’s some theological density there. So let me give you just a chance to rift. What is the Lord revealing in and through this passage?

Jeff: First of all, what does he say there? The world does not love me. The world does not know me. The world does not. We recognize that John’s use of the word “world” is a world in conflict. He’s not talking about the new heavens and the new earth or the original heavens and earth.

He’s talking about the reversal of, or the corrupted nature of the way things are, the world. And there’s beauty in that to me in the sense that, God so loved the world. In other words, even if the world can’t love God, the flesh can’t give birth to [Spirit], the worldliness, the sordidness of our flesh can’t love God, God loves us in the flesh. He doesn’t just love our true selves. He loves us.

He loves us warts and all, and he’s embraced us at our very worst. And that’s why I love that leper story in Mark 1, (we won’t go into it) Jesus embraces the leper at his very worst. He doesn’t heal him first and then say, come give me a hug! He embraces him, touches him before he heals him.

God so loved the world. That is the same love that the Father has for the Son that he has for each one of us who are adopted in the Son (ergo, every human being as Ephesians 1 says, anybody who’s adopted in the Son—and that would be all, according to my interpretation of Ephesians 1:1-10—has been a child of God from all eternity.)

And I think that there’s a matter of revelation now to be had—it doesn’t look like that—but these 12 apostles are the ones in the room and at this time, they represent not only Israel in the 12 tribes in a representative fashion, but they really represent humanity.

And the church also should be a provisional representation of all human beings sanctified in Christ. They are the ones that want to follow the head of the whole human race, and therefore have been called the body of Christ in scripture. But that doesn’t mean that the body of Christ is any different ontologically than every other human being outside the so-called walls of the church. We start with the fact that we are all included in Jesus Christ, by creation and redemption, and he is the head of the human race.

And our desire then would be to live in tangible expression of that. And that to live as the body of Christ, as Israel was called to do, as we are called to do. Not in a supersessionist way as the church, but in a way that the church and Israel are meant to bear witness, bear witness in a way that bears relative witness to the truth for all humanity.

And so, I just think that when it comes to this idea of knowing nobody knows the Son, except the Father, nobody knows the Father, except the Son that we have to recognize that we’re all inside of that by virtue of the vicarious humanity of Christ. And that in any place in our life where we give testimony to the fact that I really began to know God or that’s when I knew God, we can recognize that not only has God known us, but we’ve known God as well, if we take the vicarious humanity of Christ seriously.

And the reason that those “born from above moments” are so powerful and so visceral is because they’re rooted in reality, not because they’re creating the reality. And that’s why I’ve always been an evangelist at heart, I love to preach the gospel because I love to see those moments of discovery and recognition that are truly transformative.

And that will really allow us to be able to rest in the fact that yes, we know God first and foremost, because Jesus Christ knows God. And he shares that with us in a way that we can play second fiddle. And that second fiddle is so much better than trying to get our own primary fiddle going.

Anthony: Man. I so desperately want my agency sometimes, but you’re right. The second fiddle, it’s the chair to be in, brother.

You and Susan are dear friends. I love you. I’m so grateful for our friendship. And I’m grateful for the ways that you have been a faithful expression of who Christ is in this city that we get to share now in Durham, North Carolina. So, thank you for being a part of the podcast.

Jeff: I’m so happy you’re here.

Anthony: Yeah, man. We’re just getting started, but you are a blessing. You’re a beloved child of God. And thank you for being a part of this podcast. As is our tradition, we love to close with the word of prayer. Would you be willing to pray over our listening audience?

Jeff: Absolutely.

Lord, I thank you for your love for us. Let it penetrate through our hearts of stone that we might have a created and redeemed heart that you’ve given us towards you. And that therefore, we might not define ourselves by what we think about ourselves and what the world thinks about us, but that we could rest in the love that you have, and that rest would therefore be manifest as peace to others around us and to the whole world.

And right now, during this time, we ask for a secession of conflict in Ukraine. And we ask for your blessing over all who are involved and who are suffering the deep collateral damage and the death and destruction that this conflict is brought on.

Not that this is the only conflict or that this should get headlines above others. There’s so many around the world that we know and so many that we don’t know that are happening within our own homes. These conflicts that are not of your peace, but Lord, please pour out your peace and abundance that we might be able to participate with you to be part more of the solution instead of part of the problem, that we might live in this Spirit and not in the flesh.

And that we might anticipate that great day, that day where there’ll be full clarity, where the flesh will go one way and the Spirit in Christ, Lord, we’ll be able to go with you in another, that we might live in the truth of who we are then, that we might live in the truth of we are now. And that what is true then, and what has always been true will be manifest here in this world, in this moment. I thank you for Anthony, for this podcast, and we give this all to you in the name of Jesus. Amen.


Thank you for being a guest of Gospel Reverb. If you like what you heard, give us a high rating and review us on iTunes, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcast content. Share this episode with a friend. It really does help us get the word out as we are just getting started. Join us next month for a new show and insights from the RCL.  Until then, peace be with you!

 

Building a Love Avenue Team w/ Aron Tolentino & Joshua Kho

Building a Love Avenue Team w/ Aron Tolentino & Joshua Kho

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In this episode, Cara Garrity, interviews Pastor Aron Tolentino and Joshua Kho. Aron is a pastor in GCI-Philippines and Josh is the Love Avenue Champion for the congregation. Together they discuss the best practices for building a Love Avenue Team.

Before you dig into this week’s episode, if you are a GCI Love Avenue Champion or leader. Help us craft an upcoming GCPodcast episode by telling us about one of your local Love Avenue events. Fill out this brief survey to share your event with us.

“There is a deep fulfillment in making a difference in people’s lives. To hear from people in the community who have benefited from the church’s love effort…It is wonderful to be part of the Love Avenue. It takes time, effort, commitment but when you see the faces of the target community – they are happy, they are blessed, their faces shine because you have imparted the gospel. It is really worth it.”
Joshua Kho, Love Avenue Champion Manila, Philippines

Main Points:

  1. Can you describe your process for building the local Love Avenue team? (3:56)
  2. Describe the rhythms of the team – fellowship, communication, meeting & planning, recruitment, mentorship, etc (34:42).
  3. What difference has team-based, pastor-led ministry made for Love Avenue ministries? (43:00)
  4. What encouragements and advice do you have for our listeners who are beginning to build Love Avenue teams? (59:45)

Resources:

  • FATE ToolQuestions to consider when recruiting team members.
  • Apprenticeship squareA tool that provides a pathway for leaders to journey alongside team members to provide learning opportunities and support, while inexperienced leaders learn a new skill or take on an unfamiliar role.
  • Church Hack: Missional Livinga framework that helps us develop missional habits in our everyday lives.

Follow us on Spotify, Google Podcast, and Apple Podcasts.

Program Transcript


Building a Love Avenue Team w/ Aron Tolentino & Joshua Kho

Welcome to the GC Podcast, a podcast to help you develop into the healthiest ministry leader you can be by sharing practical ministry experience. Here are your hosts, Cara Garrity and Christianna Doele.

Cara: Christianna, thank you so much for joining us today.

Christianna: Hi, Cara. Thanks so much for having me as a co-host. I’m excited to be here and to share this time with you guys.

Cara: Yes. We’re excited to have you. And in today’s episode, we will be talking with Pastor Aron and Love Avenue Champion, Joshua Kho of GCI Crossway in the Philippines about building a Love Avenue team. What is something that is important to you when serving on a team, Christianna?

Christianna: I think there are two things that really come to mind for me. I would say good communication. And then having a shared collaborative spirit. I think communication shapes the direction of the team, and it reveals the areas of strength and interest for each team member. So, then sharing a desire to collaborate and work together is what then helps to define how you move forward and face challenges. And that builds off of the communication you have with your team members.

Cara: Yes, that is excellent. I agree that those are two really important things for a team to be building. So, before we listened to the interview, I do want to take a moment to define a term that we use in the Love Avenue. It’s called a “person of peace.”

And this term will come up during the interview. Christianna, would you give us a brief explanation of what a “person of peace” is?

Christianna: Of course. So, a “person of peace” is defined as someone who belongs to the community and expresses the character, lifestyle, and subculture of the community. A “person of peace” is someone who can be your guide as you get to know the community that’s in your neighborhood. And through building a transformational relationship of trust, you can join in and participate in the neighborhood with them.

Cara: Thank you so much for defining that for us, Christianna. Let’s go ahead and listen to what pastor Aron and Josh have to share about building a Love Avenue.


Hello, friends and welcome to the latest episode of GC Podcast. This podcast is devoted to exploring best practices in the context of Grace Communion International churches. I’m your host, Cara Garrity. And today I am blessed to interview Aron Tolentino and Joshua Kho. Aron is pastor of GCI Crossway in Pasig City, Philippines. And Joshua is the Love Avenue champion of GCI Crossway.

Pastor Aron and Joshua, thank you so much for joining us on the pod. We’ll be discussing today the building of Love Avenue teams. So, thank you so much for joining us.

Before we jump on in, I’d love to know—from both of you—what is a spiritual practice that has been formational for you recently?

Aron: My name is Aron. I’m a pastor from a GCI Pasig in the Philippines. Good question, Cara! For me since the pandemic, I would say it has been an awesome experience to do more prayer, especially in the context of the community, the faith community. It’s interesting that at the time of the pandemic where we could not meet face to face, in person through the worship services, we were able to take advantage of the online meetings, the video conferences, and that grew from meeting regularly for our connect groups and even for our prayer meetings.

And so that has been a tremendous blessing in recent months and even in the last year or so, just to be able to pray together with the church members and to hear the concerns and being able to share, to place share with them.

It has become a ministry for even those people outside the faith community, we would hear prayer requests shared to us and we’d pray with them, and we get some updates. We hear how God will bless and answer the prayers. And we’d be able to hear what people are going through. So, for me, that has been such a spike for me in regard to spiritual practice, especially in this time of a pandemic.

Cara: Amen. Thank you, Aron. And Joshua, what about you?

Joshua: Spiritual practice (also during this pandemic) for me (mostly because we’re just at home) everything that I do here—for example I am working or maybe cooking, even taking a shower—I always have something to listen to. Either it’s a worship song or a sermon. It just makes it much more wonderful. Whatever you’re doing, you’re hearing Jesus; you’re hearing our Triune God being preached. It makes everything nicer and enjoyable to do. So, for me, that’s been my spiritual practice.

Cara: Yes, that’s wonderful. Thank you both so much for sharing.

And why don’t we just jump right in and talk about what building a Love Avenue team has looked like for you in GCI Crossway. And can you describe your process for building the local Love Avenue team?

Aron: Oh, good question, Cara. I guess I could answer this.

It was, I think in 2020, and I had a class under Dr. Randy Bloom for Field education. And for that class, we were required to come up with a ministry project that we would work on during the term. And I used that class, that project as a prompt to look at our situation as a local church and try to sense where we are in the journey of the vision of healthy church and what will be the next best step for us.

And I thought that was the next best thing for us. And that’s what I did; that’s what I proposed to the class. I came up with a ministry action plan, ss we were required to do, and I presented the plan to the leadership team, of this is something that we feel as a group was God leading us to do, to participate in.

So, that’s basically the birth of that. Practically, I didn’t want to do a ministry project aside from what is already happening in the local church. So, I was thinking I wanted to do a ministry project that’s already aligned with what’s happening in our local church. That’s part of my thought process.

And so, I would break down the process into three phases. The first one was the grouping stage. It’s the part where I share the vision of the project to the leadership team. And then we started recruiting potential team members for the Avenues, especially the Love Avenue team.

We sent out invitations and then we met for orientation. And then the process continued on. We would meet regularly. But part of it is just to bring people together, build your rapport, and build the relationships, get acquainted and get connected with one another on a regular basis. So, that was the grouping stage.

The next part was the equipping phase. That was a time when we would equip and provide tools to the potential Avenue team members. So, that it would help them carry out their respective Avenue callings. We facilitated with the help of other pastors, denominational leaders.

We facilitated trainings in team dynamics, temperament survey or personality survey, spiritual gifts. We talked about consensus decision-making, other things like understanding the nature or the vocations of the church. And then we had strategic planning. I felt it was important that the Avenue teams, the Love Avenue team, and the others would be able to plan on their own, of course, with the discernment and the leading of the Holy Spirit.

And of course, part of it is really getting a good grasp of the vision of healthy church and Avenues. What do they look like? What do we want to see as a denomination? But at the same time, how do we contextualize that in our unique situations as local churches?

And then third phase was, I call it, the mobilizing stage, wherein we begin to allow the Avenue teams, the Love Avenue particularly, to begin to get their feet wet, to look at our situation, our church. Where do you think God is leading? What do you think Jesus is doing in our community, our target community? And then what do you think would be our participation in Jesus’ ministry?

So, the third phase is really about helping them get their feet wet and to try it out, and to do their own strategic planning for the Love Avenue. And I think—it wasn’t perfect—but I think it was a good flow of progression from where we started. So, now they’re able to do it.

Part of it was to launch them officially in the presence of the congregation so they’re recognized, and people can support them. Meanwhile, the Love Avenue can also speak for the Avenue, not just me as the pastor, but they can do that and they can give updates and they can invite people and share what’s happening, what God is doing in our target community.

So, basically those are the, I would call, the phases we went through as Avenue teams.

Cara: Thank you for sharing that. I especially appreciate the intentionality of the process for building that the Love Avenue team in GCI Crossway, the process of bringing, grouping the team together and allowing them to become a team first.

I’ve even heard of in some churches, there’ll be a connect group first of potential Love Avenue team members. So, this idea of coming together and building that relationship first, if they’re actually going to function as a team. But then the equipping! Because there’s some knowledge and skills that they’ll need. And then they get their feet wet, instead of just tossing them over into the deep end and expecting that they know how to swim. That’s good!

And then the second thing, Aron, I love that you did a commissioning in front of the entire membership so that they’re truly empowered. Like you said, they can give updates. They can communicate directly with membership about what’s happening, what God is doing through the Love Avenue.

It doesn’t all have to filter through you as the pastor of the church. That is huge team-based pastor led ministry that is being expressed in the Love Avenue. Thank you.

Aron: Yeah. Praise God for that.

Cara: Amen. You spoke a little to this, but I’d love to dig a little bit deeper.

How have you helped members discern and develop their giftedness in the Love Avenue ministry?

Aron: One of the trainings we did was the spiritual survey (spiritual gift survey) and then the personality survey. But I think, of course, when you do those surveys, it doesn’t necessarily mean automatically that you’re going to figure out where do you fit in the body or niche in the body. But I thought that was helpful to trigger, to prompt the people, to start reflecting and asking God, where are you placing me? Or what are the gifts that you have given me?

But I believe what was more important was we invited people from the church, from the congregation, those who have already demonstrated their passion and inclination towards the people outside the church. I thought that was really important. Because many of them I know personally. I’ve been the pastor of that congregation for 10 years now or so. And many of them I’ve been friends with, I’ve been working with for years, even before I became the pastor of the church.

And so, I just knew that there were people who are more passionate towards the people outside the church community than the others. And that’s what we look for. Same goes for the other Avenue teams, but especially for the Love Avenue.

I would say for our congregation, that among the three Avenues, that’s probably the weakest among the three Avenues for our congregation. And we admit that. We’ve done some assessment, and we can admit that this is something that we think God was bringing to our attention.

And so, it was important that we recruited, invited people who just naturally have the passion for the people outside the church. We have people who have experience for years in doing outreach events. We have our facilitator for our evangelism training, she’s part of the [Love] Avenue team. These people naturally, they’re confident about initiating conversations with strangers.

They have a friendly disposition. They enjoy meeting new people. And for many of them, I see that they’re comfortable in their own skin in terms of their Christian faith, that they do not shy away from sharing their faith to the people outside the church community. So, for me, that was really important firstly to gather those people who we think that have those gifts and passion for those people outside the church community.

Now, with regards to the new (quote, unquote) the new talents, (I learned this also from GCI) we look for those who have “faith.” We call it FATE: faithful, available, teachable, and enthusiastic. Those people who welcome your invitations to say, for example, a discipleship program or a training. You invite them to a connect group or to an activity in the church, and then they would show up. Those people are to watch out for. Many times, the new (quote, unquote) the new talents, they’re still at the stage where they’re still discerning their place in the church, in the community.

And so that’s where the leadership of the church could help them. But one of the things I do is give them an immersion. I begin with what’s obvious, what’s their interest, what’s their skillset, what’s their professional background, what do they do at work.

Or even their church experiences if they come from a different congregation or a different church, a denomination entirely. I begin with those obvious things. And then we invite them to an immersion, to try it out, not necessarily to commit for a long-term ministry. But just to try it out and then just to give that person (the new talents) time to see and experience. And try to feel, is it meaningful? Did they enjoy it? Does it trigger some passion in their heart in doing that certain ministry?

And then at some point, we sit down with them, and we help them debrief and assess, help them reevaluate. And so hopefully that person will continue with the ministry or maybe they would want to try a different ministry altogether.

But for many of our Love Avenue members, many of them have demonstrated such passion and comfort in going out to the community and, and being with strangers in a way, and to be able to share their faith. For me, that has helped me a lot in choosing, reflecting: who do we bring in to be part of our Love Avenue team?

Cara: Thank you. Joshua, is there anything that you would add from a Love Avenue champion perspective?

Joshua: Yeah, certainly. Just like what Aron said, enthusiasm. A certain level of enthusiasm is really needed because you’re reaching out to people outside the church. So, you need to have a certain level of energy of passion and hope and looking forward to what you can do and what you can give to the community. A heart for others, as well, is definitely important. We can see that, actually, most displayed in our “person of peace.” This person really—she’s the one that’s really rallying us to commit and develop relationships with our target community. So, it’s really important.

Friendliness as well is very important because these persons are not members of the church. They’re technically strangers. So, we need us members of the Love Avenue team to be really friendly, know how to communicate, know how to build relationships and be patient because you will work with other people. And we seldom have the same methods of doing, for example, doing activities like schedules, et cetera. So, you really need to work it out with the target community.

Humility is very important. It means we’re teachable. And we really put our heart into the target community, getting to know them deeply, not just superficially, but really know them, who they are, their needs. So, humility is very important.

And then for the new talents, we invite them and include them in the programs of the Love Avenue. So, if we see members—potential Avenue team members—then we invite them, “Maybe you can join or come with us. Join in our activities with the community.” Then we would know if that church member is a good fit to the Love Avenue team.

Yeah, I think that’s all.

Cara: Thank you. That’s fantastic. I think those are incredible things that you’re looking out for that are gifts that may make a person compatible in the Love Avenue. And particularly what I want to highlight is that you’re helping to identify what might make somebody a good fit for ministering within the Love Avenue. And as you do that, there’s a continued openness to who else may God be bringing to participate in the Love Avenue ministries.

So, this idea of, maybe he’s continuing to bring people or developing these gifts, that there can be these new talents in the Love Avenue and that they can be invited to participate and try it out for a little while and see if that is what God is doing in and through them without making a lifelong commitment. I think that’s an incredible way to be apprenticing within our Avenue, to be continuing to support what God is doing in and through his people and finding how is God inviting people to participate in each Avenue.

But today we’re speaking about the Love Avenue in particular, right? So, that we’re always expanding how the Love Avenue ministries are working and who is participating in it in the life of the church. Yes, that’s fantastic.

Within the Love Avenue team, what processes are you using, or have you used to discern what particular roles people serve on the team?

Joshua: Just like what was mentioned earlier about the equipping part of the Avenue teams. Again, the spiritual gift survey was really helpful because you would get to appreciate and own the gifts that God has given us individually, so we would know where we can actually contribute. Because there are certain things that we are good at, there are certain things that we’re not that good at. So, we know where we can be placed that can really get on our potential. And so that’s very important.

Self-awareness tools like the 5 Voices. The members in the Love Avenue, they really appreciate this kind of self-awareness tool. Even the older generation, they appreciate it. It’s like they’re thinking it would have been nice if we knew these things earlier; we could have really ministered. [Yet] it’s all about God’s timing. I think this is the perfect time he allowed this equipping to be done so that they would really appreciate the blessings that they provide.

And then team dynamics, building relationships leading to knowing each other’s strengths. But again, overall, it’s about the person’s giftedness and their best fit. And then also to discern what cause, it’s based on the target community and its needs. So, for Crossway, we chose a school. Okay. Based on the needs of the school. For example, during the pandemic, there were a lot of front liners.

Some of the teachers still go to the school, so their needs were alcohol, face masks, those things that are really needed. In the Love Avenue team, we know one member who came from the pharmaceutical industry. It was obvious who we can ask to help; their role was by default.

Okay. We ask help of this person because she knows more than the other members, so it’s really based on the needs. And then people become familiar with their own abilities, skills, and inclinations.

The networks, for example, one member of the church is good at finances in the Love Avenue team. It just so happens, she’s a member of the Love Avenue team. So, again, obviously when we need wisdom financially, we go and ask help to that Avenue team member.

And then roles—where this comes in—the role in the church extends to the Love Avenue team. So, people in the church, their roles there, those that best fit the Love Avenue team needs, we put people there.

And then again, we practice consensus decision-making. So those things, it really helps.

Cara: That’s good. Aron, anything that you want to add to that?

Aron: Yeah. Thank you, Josh. Because he’s a part of the Love Avenue team. I get to see it from a bird’s eye view, but Josh gets to see it from where the action is.

I agree; it’s something that we are learning to practice. It’s something that I believe in. God has granted his giftedness by his grace in the spirit, and our role is to discern where God is placing us, what doors God is opening, and where is he leading. And I believe we all have a place in the body.

And so even in a ministry setting, like the Love Avenue, it’s still a good practice to find our niche, our best fit. But at the same time, we’re open for people to try it out. I think that’s also important, that we allow people to try it out. And even to invite others to experience it—even just for a little bit—and then they can decide if that’s something they want to be part of for a more regular basis. We wish that the more and more people will see the Love Avenue as an opportunity to—an exciting opportunity—to see what God is doing in our community.

Yeah, and again, a lot of times it’s really what God is opening, the doors that God is opening from the side of the community. That’s what Love Avenue is. Part of it is discerning what do they have? What are they doing? And how else can we participate in their events, in their programs?

And Joshua mentioned that every now and then we will donate alcohol because it’s a necessity now, even for the school. And there’s also an event that we do once a month where we give [an] inspirational talk to the student council of that high school. And what’s interesting is that it’s their program. It’s not our program; it’s their program of their student council. And because of the established relationship, they would invite us. And in fact, they did, and they’ve given us that for—I think they do it once a month, every Saturday morning for about two hours, but the inspirational talks would go for 15 minutes or 30 or so.

So, it’s just part of the program, but they have opened that spot for us. And because we’re dealing with young people, our default is to bring in those, our leaders who know how to interact and communicate with young people. And so many of our speakers from the church have experience in youth ministry, have been SEP camp counselors. So, because that’s their giftedness, that’s what they’re comfortable with. That’s part of their competence.

True enough, the students enjoy it. In fact, they started out their first meeting I think there were about like 50 who attended. But then they liked the inspirational talk, and they began to open it outside the student council, to the club members, the committee heads of the clubs in the school just so they could hear the quote unquote inspirational talk.

But part of it is really seeing what [are] the doors that God is opening and discerning how best we can respond to those seeds and to those opportunities. So, it’s amazing. They’ve been doing it for, I think, five months now. And we’d be part of it for basically the same time. And it’s not something we created. Again, this is where we affirm that it’s really Jesus’ ministry and God opened that door and God brought it to our attention. And we started thinking, okay, who do we send, the best people we can send? Because we want to love them in the best way we can. And it’s been fun.

And the thing is, we were able to include those people outside the Love Avenue team, because their role is to speak there. They don’t have to be part of the Love Avenue, but to share inspirational messages that are biblically based. So, that’s our approach. Again, we’re bringing the best people that we can send because it’s our expression of loving them the best way we can.

Cara: Yes. Thank you. Thank you.

And first, we are a global church and international church. So, for our international listeners—so that there’s no misunderstanding—I want to clarify that by alcohol, you all mean sanitizing alcohol for sanitation purposes, just so that there is no confusion.

But second you both, Joshua and Aron, have named two things that I really want our listeners to hear. In the discernment process for what roles people are serving, you said two things. You’re looking for best fit in terms of how God has gifted the people in the church community, what God is doing in and through them. And what is actually happening in your neighborhood, what are the needs?

And so, one size does not fit all. This is not a forced fit. It’s not doing things just based on we have this template that we’ve really need to just fill out. As you said earlier, Aron, this is the Love Avenue: you have best practices, and these best practices are contextualized.

So, the roles of a Love Avenue in one neighborhood may be different than what the roles end up being in another neighborhood. The gifting of the Love Avenue team members in one neighborhood may create different roles than the giftings of the Love Avenue team in another neighborhood. And I think that is so key that you two have touched on that, because it’s about discerning what God is doing in your midst, in your context, and participating in that and to match those two things.

What are the gifts that God has brought into our midst and what are the needs in the community? (What is God doing in our neighborhood?) And how can we match those two up, bring the best people to participate in what God is already doing in our neighborhood?

That is incredible. So, thank you. I just wanted to highlight because our listeners—man, don’t miss that. Don’t miss what they just said, listeners!

Aron: It’s really Jesus’ ministry. And our goal is to sense where God is leading us. What is Jesus doing in that target community? What are the doors that he’s opening for us? Because we started out with—I think, the Love Avenue team (if they’re listening,) they would recognize that there was a time when we started coming up with programs and plans for the target community.

And the “person of peace,” who was basically the principal of that school, who happens to be part of our leadership team and part of our Love Avenue team, she was the one who was filtering those programs saying, “Okay, no, it’s not going to work. No, the government does that. No, they’ve had a lot of these programs already.”

It was through her that God was giving us those cues. “No, not this one but this one. Nope. We’re not going to—we cannot do that right now, but this is their program right now. Maybe we can participate.”

So, we had to learn to have that the dependent stance, dependent on what God is doing, where the Holy Spirit is leaving. And so that’s the amazing thing that we’re learning. And now there’s more matching to what’s happening in the community, what they are doing, what are their needs. And then we group ourselves together again and then [ask], “Okay what can we do? How can we respond to this in the most appropriate way? And who do we send so that we can love them in the best possible way.”

So, that’s one big learning for us as a Love Avenue, [that] we could not impose our programs! Because it was based on what we are hearing from the community. It was more like what the community is doing, and we were just riding along with their programs. And true enough, it has brought us to a deeper appreciation from both sides: us, and them towards us. And the relationships have been established.

So, for us that’s a big thing to praise God for, that the school recognizes us. And we’re able to embrace them as part of our extended family, if I may say it that way.

Cara: Amen. And so really every Love Avenue team is going to look a little bit different. And so, I’d love for you all to describe the rhythms of your Love Avenue team in GCI Crossway. In terms of what are the rhythms of fellowship, communication, meeting, and planning, recruitment, mentorship, training, all of those things. What are the rhythms that you’ve established as the team?

Joshua: Weekly, regular meetings. That’s very important to get updated with what’s happening in the school. In terms of communication, we have our own social media group chats. There’s one group chat for all the Avenue teams, and there’s one group chat dedicated only to the Love Avenue team. So, after our meetings, our zoom meetings, then all throughout the week, we can still further discuss in the group chats. That’s very important for us. So that even, for example, for me, I’m in the US. I can still actually work with the team members in Manila. So, it’s very important.

And then [Love] Avenue presentations to the congregation. We do that. We update the congregation, Crossway, and what’s happening with the Love Avenue, what are the current activities, the past activities. So, that the church itself is updated.

With regards to planning, it all comes from our “person of peace,” (again, what Aron said) who is the principal and, at the same time, a member of the Love Avenue team. She gives us input on the school’s events, calendar events and where we can join and how we can support.

So, the team, in a way, depends partly on her, on her updates, on her feedback: this is what’s happening in the school or this coming month; there will be this event and this event. And then the whole Love Avenue team [knows], oh, okay, we have these events. So, we ask the “person of peace,” do they need any assistance from us? Is there any way we can help?

In terms of planning, we depend on the “person of peace”. That’s why the “person of peace” is very important when it comes to the Love Avenue team.

And Aron?

Aron: Thank you, Josh. Josh explained it especially what happens on a weekly basis. I think it helped us to set a regular meeting for the Avenue teams, that includes the Love Avenue team.

And sometimes, there are times when we don’t have enough numbers, and then we would cancel or postpone the meetings. And that’s fine. But I think it helps that each member of the team can expect that, okay, on the weekend, we’re going to have a meeting. So, that’s part of our rhythm. Now that’s part of our routine.

Now, again, there are times when we have to cancel the meetings, but it helps that the teams anticipate that we’re going to meet on a weekly basis. And of course, a lot of times, it’s a planning meeting. But in our group, our meetings can become both productive, but at the same time, a time for fellowship.

When we started out, compared to where we are now, the relationships have deepened, and we’re able to get to know each other. We’re able to encourage one another, uplift one another, but even just extend grace to one another. There are times when we poke on each other and test each other’s patience and, we’re learning to extend grace and to work together in the midst of our imperfections and the team’s imperfection.

So, yeah, part of the rhythm also would be the trainings and equipping. Before we launched the Avenue team, we went through the preparation of grouping them, equipping them, and mobilizing them. Still part of our Christian journeys is to journey with the Lord for every day and for the rest of our lives. Even the learning is part of our rhythm. So, every now and then, we would insert that in our schedule so that we would continue to gain more awareness of who God is, and even the tools that we need so that we can be more effective in our participation with Jesus in his ministry.

Mentoring, you mentioned mentoring and or recruitment. As a pastor, I practice what we call the apprenticeship square. That has helped me in terms of coaching the teams. For example, that’s what I’ve been doing now with our Avenue champions. So, I slowly give them more and more hands-on participation so that I can slowly step back and allow them to take over and empower them.

So, that’s part of what I’m trying to do. We started out with myself and a few denominational leaders explaining what the healthy church vision is and healthy leadership and healthy Avenues. And part of the agreement was we’re going to learn this together so that at some point when we launched the Avenue teams, the Avenue teams would be the ones to cascade the vision to the church. And that’s what they did. The Love Avenue, that’s what they did. They were the ones, as part of launching them, they were the ones who cascaded: what is the healthy church vision and the Avenues? What would it look like in our local church in our context?

So, that’s part of allowing them to slowly gain more participation so that they are empowered. And for me, as a pastor, there’s less and less of me being hands on, allowing them and trusting them to be able to carry out their ministry callings as Avenues. Yeah, that’s part of our rhythm.

So, every now and then we include tools, leadership tools, or even theological insights so that we continue to grow and develop as ministry people and even as teams.

Cara: Thank you for sharing those rhythms.

Then, as we just discussed, every Love Avenue team is going to be a little bit different depending on the context, but the development of these kinds of rhythms as you said it keeps the team dynamic.

It keeps the team growing. It continues to build momentum and growth towards healthy church and healthy ministry and healthy leadership. And so that’s important to continue to think about and share, what are the rhythms and be intentional about the rhythms that are developing. So, thank you for sharing those with us today.

And you spoke a little bit to this, Aron, but I want to ask even more specifically, what difference has team-based, pastor led ministry made for the Love Avenue ministries?

Aron: Maybe Josh can answer that later on, but I can begin. I love the idea that we have become less pastor centric. I’m a full-time pastor, and there are times when people have this sort of paradigm that the pastor is supposed to do everything.

But because of the Love Avenue (and of course the other teams), it’s such significant evidence that we have grown to become less pastor centric, and there’s more empowerment and trusting the people to participate with Jesus in what he is doing.

So, imagine 3 Avenue meetings happening at the same time because we would meet on Sunday evenings. Imagine 3 simultaneous Avenue meetings going on; I wouldn’t be able to supervise or even facilitate those meetings.

So, it was part of the idea that we will really have to help them. That’s why there’s an equipping stage. There’s that equipping phase so that they would be able to carry out their respective callings.

In fact, Love Avenue is personally—among the three Avenues, that will be where I am personally the weakest. I’m strong with Faith Avenue and after that maybe the Hope Avenue. But Love Avenue, it’s probably where I am weakest. But I’m just so happy that we have a group of people that are—maybe you can say—that are more gifted when it comes to the Love Avenue.

They’re more comfortable in going out to the community and talking to strangers, engaging people that they barely know. So, I am grateful for that, that we are able to celebrate and provide platforms for those people that are gifted with specific gifts in those specific roles and ministries in the church.

So, for me, that’s one of the biggest gains for me. I have more time now to focus on other things. Not that I don’t want to do it, I’m still involved in the Love Avenue, but I get to focus more on the things that I will have to do as a pastor. I am able to become more strategic with my time and the tasks that I’m going to do.

It positions me as well to focus on the champions, to work with them more closely and to help them grow in their leadership as well, so that they can effectively lead their respective teams. So, Joshua, he knows this. We meet together with the other champions. We do that as well.

As a pastor, I’m happy with the fact that we have more people invited to the table and have ownership in the vision of the church. Many of the Love Avenue members have been faithful in the church and they’ve been, you can say, active members in the church. But the Love Avenue team, they have a bigger role now. They share in the discussions, they share in the decision-making, and they provide wonderful insights.

For me that’s a big it’s a highlight, that there [are] more people invited to the table and have ownership of the vision of the church. For me personally, that’s what I would say the is biggest difference. And I’m happy that we’re able to—by the grace of God—we’re able to find these people and group them together and carry out the vision of the Love Avenue—sorry, the calling of the Love Avenue. And they’re doing it on behalf of the church, but at the same time, inviting others to participate.

Yeah. Josh, how about you? From your end? What would be, would you say,  is the difference that the Love Avenue made?

Joshua: Yeah. Your question is really very nice for me personally. It’s a life changing difference. Knowing that I’ve been in the church for a long time as well, I was part of the system where in mostly we depend on Aron’s leading or the agenda that he set, and then we follow, we [have] input. But now, in regard to when we transition to team-based pastor lead ministry, it has really opened up so many—it’s just like the potential of the church was unleashed because members are empowered. Almost everyone [is] empowered to speak up, to contribute all their thoughts. Their input [is] important. We try to squeeze out ideas, suggestions from everyone. That’s why discussions become really productive. We get to better hear all input, again in the context of decision-making.

The team is empowered. The team members have become more hands on in participating. For example, in the previous outreach efforts before the Love Avenue was established, only those directly involved with the community had the say. If they decide the activity, then the members will just follow: Okay, we need to do this for the community; then, okay.

But now, with the Love Avenue team, after it had been established, people can participate. We decide as a team, and it has helped in the discussions and even in the small execution of plans, because everyone is in one accord of what to do.

So, it really has helped to establish programs, to make it from start to finish. It’s much smoother and faster because everyone is on the same page. So, it’s really good. It’s very important to really practice this team-based pastor led system.

Cara: Thank you. Thank you both for sharing that idea of increased participation and ownership and unleashing the potential in the church. That’s just beautiful to hear you both describe that.

Are there any additional challenges or blessings of building a Love Avenue team that either of you would like to share today?

Aron: Yep. Looking back, part of the challenge was—just because we were not used to working together, these teams, the Love Avenue in particular (and everyone else, really.) We just didn’t know how to navigate when it comes to the team dynamics.

There’s not much self-awareness so—it’s not really a challenge—but it was important for us to learn how to navigate the different personalities, the different voices, and the different inclinations of each member of the Love Avenue team.

So, that’s part of the challenge, and every now and then, that comes up where there are misunderstandings. That’s part of the reality of being in a team. And so yeah, those things happen through just misunderstandings and not [being] able to see eye to eye. Yeah.

At the same time, part of the struggle was to keep the momentum, especially at the start. I thought that was really important, as well, if we’re gonna engage in pursuing the vision of healthy church, that we would build the momentum by being able to meet regularly and keep a certain base, with flexibility, of course. But we wanted to build the momentum, but of course initially, that’s something that we needed to watch out for.

But I’ll go back to the first thing I mentioned. It’s just part of reality when you are in a team setting where there are times when you don’t see eye to eye or [have] misunderstandings. But the bigger issue: how do you deal with it; how do you get over that hump and in love and with grace to one another.

But the blessing we can say (how do we say it usually?) that the blessings outweigh the challenges because with the Love Avenue—I’ve been wanting to recognize our church in Surrey Hills [Oklahoma, US.] They’ve been instrumental by providing trainings for us. Pastor Mike [Rasmussen] spent some time—and with Ceeja [Malmkar]—helping us understand the Love Avenue and what is it for? What does it look like?

But what happened, one blessing was that it really defined for us clearly the vision and the strategy of the Love Avenue where we get to focus our love and our resources and our efforts to a certain community. So, for me that’s one [blessing.] For the Love Avenue, in terms of reaching out to the community, it became clear what we want to see happen. And we’re able to unify our efforts towards that community.

We were able to define our target community, and that was part of the consensus decision-making. It wasn’t decided by me; it wasn’t decided by a couple of people. So, we were able to agree on the target community, the community that we think God is leading us to. And that was part of the dialogue.

So, now it’s clear even to the congregation. Not everybody is literally part of the efforts at the moment, especially with the pandemic but it’s clear for everybody who is our target community that we think God has given us to love and to focus on our efforts on. So, that’s one blessing as well, that we have defined our target community, and it’s owned by the church in the midst of the pandemic.

It’s amazing that we were able to express our love towards that community. For me, that’s a big blessing as well. And that’s part of the decision-making to choose this target community because in the Philippines, in our setting, the government is more strict when it comes to being able to go out. And because it was a pandemic, and we set up the Love Avenue during the pandemic wherein, we couldn’t really go out.

Part of the discussion, (we believe that God led us to that decision) is this school where we have a “person of peace” and they already operate in an online format (because schools here now operate online. Online classes are being held.) Yeah, that was part of the factor in deciding to focus our attention for this community.

Part of the blessing, as well, is after several months we know that the community has welcomed us. They appreciate our presence; they appreciate what we’re able to offer them. So, there’s organic growth in the relationship within the target community. So, they’re able to get to know us more personally. So, that’s one blessing as well.

It’s built a deeper relationship among the teams as well. Again, it’s not a perfect team, we’re not. Nobody’s perfect. But through the regular rhythms of meeting and interactions and learning together, going through some trainings together, we’re learning to embrace one another in the midst of our strengths and even our weaknesses.

So, I can feel that in the Love Avenue team. Again, there are challenges, but the blessings just outweigh the challenges.

Cara: Amen. Joshua, any challenges and blessings that you’d like to speak to?

Joshua: Maybe for me, blessings [would be]—for example, I mentioned earlier [that] we parallel with what is happening with the school and even the local holidays of the country, or even, worldwide. For example, Father’s Day, Mother’s Day, National Teacher’s Appreciation Day.

That’s a blessing that, as a church, we can minister and bless the target community. For example, the last Teacher’s Day, we were able to just give them a token of appreciation. We gave them mugs. If they like coffee or something, there’s a print there to appreciate the teachers. So, they really liked that.

And then we gave cakes during the Mother’s Day [holiday.] So, it’s really just a wonderful experience, a blessing actually, wherein we can participate in what Jesus is doing. Actually, because now in the pandemic, we’re now mostly—at least for Crossway—we’re online so, we can bless the community with our financial blessings, and we can bless them actually.

So, that’s truly one of the things wherein the Love Avenue is blessed by making the community happy that some of their needs are met. So, that’s really good.

Cara: Yeah. Amen. Thank you for sharing. And as we begin to wrap up our conversation for today, what final encouragements or pieces of advice do you have for our listeners who are beginning to build their Love Avenue teams?

Joshua: For those who are starting to build their love up in your teams, it really will be worth it because you can develop wonderful relationships with the people in your target community, from being strangers to close friends.  You can do that.

And then there is a deep fulfillment in making a difference in people’s lives, to hear people from the target community who benefited from the church love effort that addressed a certain need. And then they would say—I remember in one of the events that we participated, one of the persons in the community said, “I needed that.” So, it means maybe he heard something in the message or in the sharing, in the testimony that he needed in that certain time of his life, and it came from the church.

So, again it’s really wonderful to be part of the Love Avenue team. So, it takes time, it takes effort, it takes commitment. But when you see the faces of the target community, they’re happy, they’re blessed. Their faces shine because you have imparted to them the gospel. It’s really worth it.

Aron?

Aron: Yeah. Thank you, Josh.

Yeah, there are times when you would really hear the responses of the people from the target community, and you would know authentically that they are grateful that the church is able to make a difference in their lives.

Yeah, but I would say maybe an encouragement would be when we help our church build her Love Avenue team, we would be able to participate more in Jesus’ ministry, in loving our neighbors and hopefully drawing them to Christ.  Jesus is already there. He is the one loving our neighbors, our community, but Jesus is inviting us to participate. I think that’s a beautiful idea.

The other thing, personally, part of the breakthrough for me and in our Love Avenue team as well (even as a church), as we studied and became more familiar with the Love Avenue and its purposes and its calling, there’s more emphasis now on loving the neighbor.

We want our community, the people in the community to get to know Jesus. And maybe experience the life of the triune God in the church. Of course, that will continue to be our prayer. But just the same, we’ve learned not to gauge our quote unquote success primarily based on the numbers of the people coming into the church and all of that.

Our primary role is to participate in loving our neighbors, so that has become our main gauge. Are we loving our neighbors the way that Jesus does? So, that has been what prompts us in doing it. And we continue to pray that people would get to know Jesus and experience the life of the triune God in the church. But whether that happens or not, our calling is to love them and to participate in what God is doing in loving our neighbors.

I guess lastly would be, for me to the churches or even pastors hearing this, that the process will take time. It’s better that way, that it’s going to be slow and steady. So, the process will take time in developing the Love Avenue team in the church, but it will definitely be worth it.

I can say personally that I can see the difference it made in our church, in our leadership team, in the group of our ministry workers and leaders. So, I can say that personally, it will take time developing the Love Avenue team, but we’ll definitely be worth it.

Cara: Amen. Amen. Thank you both so much for sharing these incredible insights, but we’re not finished yet.

We’re got a few fun questions for you all and no pressure. Just say whatever comes to mind first. This first question, we’ll go ahead, Aron, you can answer this one first, but all these questions will be for both of you. Okay.

What book or movie have you read or seen recently that you would recommend and why?

Aron: Oh, man. That’s difficult because I’ve been studying under Dr. Gary’s [Deddo] class, and I’m not sure. No, I’m just kidding.

Lately I’ve—I’m not sure if I can recommend this—but on Netflix, I watched this series on the World War II. I wouldn’t necessarily recommend it, but it’s been it’s something I’ve watched recently.

And I thought it was helpful for me to learn what was happening around that time, the events of the World War II, and that includes the Pacific wars, so it connected with me personally because we’re here. I’ve learned so much when it comes to the mindset of the world leaders then, and what people suffered, and all those things.

So, it was helpful just to have a picture of the world at that time, the mindset of the people, and to learn from those events, to learn from that (you could say) era.

Cara: Yeah, Joshua. What about you?

Joshua: Recently I’m reading Atomic Habits by James Clear. It’s been nice. What it says is, “An easy and proven way to build good habits and break bad one,” which I have many bad ones. So, it’s very helpful for me. It’s really good.

It gives you practical advice to really build good habits. And, the bad habits we do, we stopped doing them. It’s really the little changes. But one example he has here is, for example, you fly from LA going to, for example, Florida. When the plane takes off at LA and just slightly change its flight path for just like three degrees, you will not land in Florida. You would land somewhere else. That’s how powerful little habits are. So, it’s really been a blessing, at least for my personal development. So, yeah, I can commend it.

Cara: Nice. Nice. All right. This next question. What food do you always bring to a church dinner?

Aron: Church dinner? Okay. I don’t cook, so I like buying deliveries maybe pizza or pasta. Those are easiest for me. I just call the delivery and they bring it to you, bring it to the events.

Cara: Yes, same!

Aron: And I wouldn’t bring anything that I cooked to the church. I don’t think it’s going to be wise.

Cara: Joshua. What about you?

Joshua: Maybe… it’s been a while since the last time. We always have—that’s what’s also good in Crossway. We have fellowship after the service, eating. But for times like that, I’m always assigned to bring the drinks. We take care of the drinks, juice or soda or something else.

Cara: Nice! We’re all on the same wavelength then, right?

If you could live anywhere in the world for a year, where would it be?

Aron: For a year? Okay. Probably somewhere there in the US. My sister lives there. Ida, my sister, she’s in New Jersey. And so, every time me and my wife would have a conversation—because we love to travel—and every time she would ask me, where do you want to go next? And my default is (I don’t mind going elsewhere), but my default is to visit my sister. She’s been there for decades now, and we only get to see her rarely. So, that would be my answer.

Joshua: Oh, for me, I think Japan. I just personally am fond of their culture, their way of living, their history. So, I would certainly love to stay there for a year.

Cara: Okay. Nice. And final question. If you could have an unlimited supply of one thing for the rest of your life, what would it be?

Aron: Oh, wow.

Joshua: It’s hard. Coffee?

Cara: Goldfish?

Joshua: Coffee.

Cara: Oh, coffee! I thought you said goldfish. Coffee. That’s a good one.

Aron: For me, I would probably say fried chicken. It never gets old. You would get tired of fried chicken for a day or two, and then, you’ll get some again after, so yeah.

Cara: I love it.

Aron: I think I can try, Asian fried chicken, southern states in the US, New York or whatever. Whichever kind of dish regards to chicken, I’m good with that.

Cara: Oh, that’s true. There’re different kinds of fried chicken too. So, you get variety. I like it. Coffee and fried chicken. Yeah.

Thank you both so much for taking your time to join us on the GC Podcast today. It is our practice with GC Podcast to end our show with a word of prayer. And so, Joshua, would you be willing to pray for our listeners, our churches, pastors, and ministry leaders in GCI? Thank you.

Joshua: Let’s pray.

Our triune God, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, we thank you so much for this time. We thank you for Cara, Pastor Aron, and me. I thank you for the team who will put this together.

We just praise you, and we give you thanks for the love that you have showered on us. Lord, our prayer is that we would be filled with your love first and foremost, that it would overflow in our lives, Lord. That we personally experience your deep love for us. So, that as we see our neighbors, as we see other people, Lord, we can extend that love towards them.

And we thank you, Lord, that you have blessed us with leaders who are faithful to you in teaching and equipping us. Lord, we thank you for this podcast, and we lift this up to you that many people would be blessed. And we just are honored, Lord, that you would grant us the grace.

Use us, Lord, imperfect as we are. But because you are perfect, it is your work. It is your ministry. You enable, and you equip us. All the needs that we have, Lord, you provide so that we can make a blessing and a difference in the world. So, we just thank you, and we praise you. And we give you thanks for your wisdom, your provisions, your guidance, Lord, in not just in the Love Avenue team, but in the Faith, in the Hope Avenue team.

And we pray Lord that every church will become healthy, Lord. And that’s not our desire; that’s your desire. So, we just thank you that you invite us to join in your kingdom. So, we just thank you. We thank you for all the listeners, Lord, we bless their heart. And thank you so much for your grace. All of these things, Father God, we ask and pray in the mighty name of your Son, Jesus Christ. Amen.


Cara: Aron and Joshua shared a lot of meaningful insights with us. One thing that especially stood out to me was the practice of creating space for people to just explore different areas of ministry, to try it out, to see what it’s like to participate in that area of ministry without a lifelong commitment. To do that as a process of discerning God’s gifting and calling in ministry. What stood out to you from what they had to share?

Christianna: I really appreciated their emphasis on discernment, not only in understanding your gifts, but also in recognizing and seeking to meet the needs of the community. I think, as they mentioned by centering the discernment of people’s gifting as they engage in ministry, but also recognizing the community needs, that’s a really meaningful and important way to shape the expressions of the Love Avenue.

Cara: Yes, absolutely. That key piece of discernment is so important in the Love Avenue. And then another piece that’s important in building out the Avenue teams is engaging emergent leaders. As a young adult leader in GCI, what advice or encouragement would you share with our ministry leaders as they engage young emergent leaders on their Love Avenue teams?

Christianna: I think communication not only relates to the development of those strong collaborative teams, but also engaging young leaders in the ministry of the church. So, in a sense, creating space for individuals to fully participate from seeing their voice shape the direction of new efforts or receiving encouragement guidance, I think that really allows for the expression of everyone’s gifts.

And when each of us has an opportunity to leverage our insights and our energy and being a part of the community, that’s how you create really powerful and authentic expressions of love.

Cara: Amen. Thank you for sharing that. This episode, it really got me thinking about the Love Avenue. And for those of us who are wondering where we can go to learn more, how can we learn more about the Love Avenue, Christianna?

Christianna: If you’d like to learn more about the Love Avenue, visit resources.gci.org/love to explore the GCI Love Avenue resources and the love Avenue toolkit.

Cara: Friends, thank you so much for listening to the GC Podcast. If you like what you heard, go ahead and give us a rating wherever you listened to the podcast. It really does helps us get the word out and invite others join in the conversation. Until next time, keep living and sharing the gospel.

We want to thank you for listening to this episode of the GC Podcast.  We hope you have found value in it to become a healthier leader. We would love to hear from you. If you have a suggestion on a topic, or if there is someone who you think we should interview, email us at info@gci.org. Remember, healthy churches start with healthy leaders; invest in yourself and your leaders.

Sermon for May 1, 2022 – Third Sunday of Easter

Speaking Of Life 4023 | A Different Sort of Power

There is no shortage of examples, today and in history, of individuals using their influence and power to control and harm others. But Jesus’ power is different. Jesus displayed his power by laying down his life and overcoming evil with truth, love, and light. His name is above any other name!

Program Transcript


Speaking Of Life 4023 | A Different Sort of Power
Jeff Broadnax

The historian and moralist known as Lord Acton held the opinion that a person’s sense of morality diminishes as their power increases. You have probably heard quoted some version of his statement, “Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men.”

That’s a pretty bold statement. However, with every passing chapter of history, Lord Acton is continually proven to be right. Notorious examples of absolute power can be seen in people like Napoleon Bonaparte who reached a point where he saw fit to declare himself an emperor. Even worse are the Roman emperors who went further to declare themselves gods. This kind of power is a self-determining power where might makes right. If you have the power, you can do whatever you want and be whoever you want. You answer to no one.

Today, we still have power players who crown themselves arbiters over everyone else and declare themselves to be all-knowing demigods who are above question. There is a long list of powerful people whose corruption stains the pages of history. It seems Lord Acton knew what he was talking about.

But, it’s not just the powerful elite who suffer from such corruption. It is in all of us to want to be masters of our own fates and captains of our own souls. And this futile pursuit has not only stained the pages of world history, but it has left a stain on our personal histories as well. And there is no amount of power that we can possess to undo it.

There is one, thankfully, who is powerful enough to rub out the stain. Only, his power is of a different sort. It’s the power that comes in the form of a slain Lamb. He ushers in his kingdom not through brute force and domination, but through the power of sacrificing his very self. Rather than, leveraging power for the sake of himself, he leverages his power for the sake of all of us.

It’s the power the Apostle Paul equated with the Cross. This is not how we think of power. For the powerbrokers of the world, this sounds like foolishness. But, Jesus, the slain Lamb of the cross has broken the chains of our self-determined sinfulness and erased the stains of our corrupt history.

Listen to the vision of his throne recorded in the Book of Revelation:

“Then I looked and heard the voice of many angels, numbering thousands upon thousands, and ten thousand times ten thousand. They encircled the throne and the living creatures and the elders. In a loud voice they were saying: “Worthy is the Lamb, who was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and praise!” Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, saying: “To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!” The four living creatures said, “Amen,” and the elders fell down and worshiped.”
Revelation 5:11-14

Jesus’ power does not come by self-appointment. It is received from his Father, who sent him into our world to rescue and redeem us. For this reason, the Father gave him the name above all names. He is the one we answer to. For this reason, we bow down to the only one who is worthy, and whose power never corrupts.

I’m Jeff Broadnax, Speaking of Life.

Psalm 30:1-12 • Acts 9:1-6, (7-20) • Revelation 5:11-14 • John 21:1-19

This week’s theme is resurrected restoration. The call to worship Psalm emphasizes healing and recovery from the Lord that prompts eternal gratefulness. A reading from Acts recounts Paul’s transformation from a persecutor of the church to a chosen instrument of the Lord. The Gospel reading from John reports the appearance of the resurrected Lord to Peter who is restored and commissioned to feed Jesus’ sheep. The Book of Revelation points to the source of all restoration with the vision of angels singing praises around the throne of God to the Lamb who was slain.

The Dawn of a New Day

John 21:1-19 (NRSV)

Easter Sunday is a big day for the Christian Church. Celebrations abound with music, drama, decorations, and food that are rarely seen on other Sundays. It is also the day most churches have their biggest day of attendance. But Easter is more than just one big special day. It’s a season. In fact, we have seven Sundays to celebrate Easter this year. We find ourselves today on the third Sunday after Easter, barely halfway through the season. I’m sure you have noticed that after Easter Sunday the remaining Sundays in the Easter season look like business as usual. The heightened celebration and crowds have dwindled back to the regular ebb and flow of a typical church gathering.

We may be disappointed and wish every Sunday would look like Easter Sunday. But if we are honest with ourselves, this dynamic of the Easter season probably reflects our own worship of the Lord more than we would like to admit. Every day is not High Easter in our daily lives. In fact, some days our lives don’t reflect the fact that he is risen at all. We are just going about our lives “business as usual.” Sound familiar? If so, the text we have before us may be just the reminder we need. It’s the story of Peter and other disciples, who have met the resurrected Lord on Easter Sunday, but seemed to be returning to their lives as it was before they even met Jesus. I guess if it happened to Peter, the one Jesus chose to build his church on, we should not be surprised that it can happen to us. But, we will see that the Lord does not intend for us to remain stuck there. Let’s take a look at how it played out for Peter and his fellow fishermen.

After these things Jesus showed himself again to the disciples by the Sea of Tiberias; and he showed himself in this way. Gathered there together were Simon Peter, Thomas called the Twin, Nathanael of Cana in Galilee, the sons of Zebedee, and two others of his disciples. Simon Peter said to them, “I am going fishing.” They said to him, “We will go with you.” They went out and got into the boat, but that night they caught nothing. (John 21:1-3 NRSV)

This story begins with seven disciples gathering at the Sea of Galilee. Jesus had already appeared to them so we may be left scratching our head as to why they are out fishing. Peter is recorded as saying, “I’m going out to fish.” Notice his orientation. He is no longer acting like a a man who dedicated himself to following Jesus, he is choosing for himself what he is going to do. One could say he is returning to a self-determined approach to life. Not only that, but he is also influencing the other disciples to follow him in this self-determined decision. Peter was called to be the one who would lead the early church. This doesn’t appear to be a good start for leadership. Instead of leading others to be followers of Christ, he has led them to follow himself.

Have you seen yourself ever slip back into self-determining patterns of thinking and acting? It happens to us all. Let’s face it, the culture we live in celebrates and continually barrages us with the temptation to “be your own man” or “be the captain of your own ship.” Self-determinism is a virtue that must be attained in a culture where self-worship runs rampant. We are called to be followers of Christ, but we often find ourselves, just like Peter and his fishing mates, returning to our boats and tackle, as if Easter Sunday meant Jesus had decided to move on without us.

Peter and the other disciples give us a glimpse of how a self-determined life will look apart from Jesus. They proceeded to answer for themselves a series of questions in order to fulfill their self-determined quest. They determined for themselves what they would do – go fishing. They determined for themselves where they would go – out to sea. They determined for themselves how they would do it – by boat. They determined for themselves when they would do it – at night. This self-initiated task in the end produced for them a net full of NOTHING! We are reminded that Jesus told his disciples that apart from him they could do nothing. Been there? You return to your boats, make your best plan, gather your favorite tools, and give it all you got, only to end up with the same results before you knew Jesus. Nothing! Nothing worth counting anyway. Usually, we end up with less than nothing – often making a mess of our lives and dragging others down with us. So far, we have a pretty dismal start for our third Sunday of Easter. But don’t go away, the sun hasn’t come up quite yet.

Just after daybreak, Jesus stood on the beach; but the disciples did not know that it was Jesus. Jesus said to them, “Children, you have no fish, have you?” They answered him, “No.” He said to them, “Cast the net to the right side of the boat, and you will find some.” So they cast it, and now they were not able to haul it in because there were so many fish. That disciple whom Jesus loved said to Peter, “It is the Lord!” When Simon Peter heard that it was the Lord, he put on some clothes, for he was naked, and jumped into the sea. (John 21:4-7 NRSV)

It was “early in the morning” when Jesus appeared on the shore, and everything begins to change. Although Easter Sunday has come and gone, with Jesus, it is always the dawn of a new day. The disciples did not recognize Jesus. They answered for themselves every what, where, how, and when question but they did not have an answer to the “who” question. Who was this man on the beach? Jesus asked a question of his own with, “Friends, haven’t you any fish?” Here Jesus gives the disciples the opportunity to admit that their way is not working. After fishing all night with nothing to show for their efforts they are honestly able to admit that the only answer they have is “No.”

We can note that Jesus’ timing is for our good. He could have saved the disciples a lot of toil by showing up earlier, but Jesus waits till the morning. This is Jesus’ third appearance to the disciples in John’s Gospel. By appearing at sunrise, Jesus offers a reminder of Easter morning. Jesus also has the disciples in a place where they are ready to cast aside their pride. They are now ready to listen to another voice other than their own. A mature disciple, in time, learns that the voice worth following is the voice of another who loves us so much we want to turn our ears toward him. When Jesus said, “Throw your net on the right side of the boat,” the disciples followed his instructions, leading to a catch so great they were unable to haul into the boat.

With this miraculous catch, the disciples were able to realize that, “It is the Lord!” Jesus helped them answer the only question that is truly important – the “who” question. And he does this by reminding them in very personal ways of who he has revealed himself to be through his relationship with them. The disciples no doubt remember when Jesus first told them to cast their net on other side of the boat – with the same results. When we fall back into our self-determining patterns, forgetting who our Lord is, Jesus is gracious and loving in his approach to us. He comes to us in ways we can recognize, often with little reminders of who he is as we have come to know him.

Notice how Peter finally saw who was standing on the shore. His eyes were opened when one of his fellow disciples said to him, “It is the Lord.” Peter’s excited response is comical. He jumps off the boat and swims to shore. It seems that seeing Jesus also helped Peter see the futility of being captain of his own destiny. He couldn’t abandon ship fast enough. This is why it is so important as we gather together as fellow disciples to remind each other of who the Lord is. How often is it that we can’t see the Lord present with us until someone reminds us who we have lost sight of? There is something about a brother or sister in Christ coming alongside you in your times of doubt and confusion to remind you of who Jesus is. To remind you that it is the Lord who is with you, who is calling you friend and calling you to himself. Many a self-determined life has been turned back to the Lord thanks to a faithful disciple who shared what the Lord opened his eyes to see. May it be so with us in our relationships with one another.

But the other disciples came in the boat, dragging the net full of fish, for they were not far from the land, only about a hundred yards off.  When they had gone ashore, they saw a charcoal fire there, with fish on it, and bread.  Jesus said to them, “Bring some of the fish that you have just caught.” So Simon Peter went aboard and hauled the net ashore, full of large fish, a hundred fifty-three of them; and though there were so many, the net was not torn. Jesus said to them, “Come and have breakfast.” Now none of the disciples dared to ask him, “Who are you?” because they knew it was the Lord. Jesus came and took the bread and gave it to them, and did the same with the fish. This was now the third time that Jesus appeared to the disciples after he was raised from the dead. (John 21:8-14 NRSV)

Now that Peter is following Jesus again, and not his own self-made plans, he has rightly reclaimed his calling as the one upon who Jesus said he would build his church. Notice the disciples in the boat are now following Peter to the shore where Jesus is, and not out to sea. As Peter follows Jesus with self-abandonment, the other disciples follow suit. This is the primary calling of any church “leader.” It is to be a follower of Christ.

When all the disciples were on the shore, we find that Jesus is already cooking some fish. Jesus does not need our catch, but he invites us to participate in what he is doing. Jesus tells them to bring some of the fish they had just caught, and then he invites them to a communion style breakfast. Jesus gives them credit for the catch of fish they just hauled in. Even though they know it was Jesus who was the one that enabled them to catch the fish, Jesus doesn’t mind sharing his glory. This is the Lord the disciples had grown to know during their time with him. He was not a Lord like the religious and political tyrants of their time. He was a glorious Lord who shared all that he has with them. After this invitation we see that “None of the disciples dared ask him, “Who are you?” The “who” question had been settled for these disciples.

When they had finished breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, “Simon son of John, do you love me more than these?” He said to him, “Yes, Lord; you know that I love you.” Jesus said to him, “Feed my lambs.” A second time he said to him, “Simon son of John, do you love me?” He said to him, “Yes, Lord; you know that I love you.” Jesus said to him, “Tend my sheep.” He said to him the third time, “Simon son of John, do you love me?” Peter felt hurt because he said to him the third time, “Do you love me?” And he said to him, “Lord, you know everything; you know that I love you.” Jesus said to him, “Feed my sheep. Very truly, I tell you, when you were younger, you used to fasten your own belt and to go wherever you wished. But when you grow old, you will stretch out your hands, and someone else will fasten a belt around you and take you where you do not wish to go.” (He said this to indicate the kind of death by which he would glorify God.) After this he said to him, “Follow me.” (John 21:15-19 NRSV)

It’s after receiving this communion type meal that Jesus restores Peter to the ministry of feeding the sheep. In the series of three questions to Peter about his love for Jesus, Peter is once again brought face to face with the futility of his own self-determined love and loyalty to the Lord as he is reminded of his three denials. This shot to Peter’s pride hurts, but ultimately leads him to the admission that the Lord knows “everything.” Jesus even predicts that Peter will not waver from his new orientation of following the Lord over following himself. Jesus contrasts how Peter once lived by going where he wanted, but who will now remain faithful in following another even when it leads to death. Peter will grow more and more to look just like Jesus.

After this we see a new Peter who is ready to follow rather than lead. And his role as “leader” in the church is defined clearly as one who nourishes and takes care of the sheep that belong to the Lord. And he will do this by feeding the sheep only with that which the Lord has fed him. And that doesn’t mean literal fish. John records Jesus feeding the disciples with bread and fish in a communion fashion. Peter is charged to feed the sheep with only what he receives from the Lord. In this way, the church is the place where sheep are fed by being reminded of who Jesus is with his word and are invited into his presence at the communion table.

In summary, when Jesus shows up everything changes. Night turns to day. Fruitless fishing becomes an abundant catch. Toiling at sea becomes a rest on the shore. As Jesus answers the “who” question for us, we can reach a point where we place our full confidence and faith in the Lord who knows all things. We can leave our boats of self-determinism and let go of our frantic desire to be captain of our own destiny. As we do so, we are fed by the Lord and are invited to participate in his feeding of his sheep. And we do that by obeying Jesus’ last words to us in the passage: “Follow me!”

Resurrection Fish Fry w/ Jeff McSwain W1

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May 1 –  3rd Sunday of Easter
John 21:1-19 “Resurrection Fish Fry”

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Program Transcript


Resurrection Fish Fry w/ Jeff McSwain W1

Anthony: Let me read the first passage that we have this month. It’s John 21:1-9. It’s a Revised Common Lectionary passage for the third Sunday of Easter on May the 1st.

After these things Jesus showed himself again to the disciples by the Sea of Tiberias; and he showed himself in this way. Gathered there together were Simon Peter, Thomas called the Twin, Nathanael of Cana in Galilee, the sons of Zebedee, and two others of his disciples. Simon Peter said to them, “I am going fishing.” They said to him, “We will go with you.” They went out and got into the boat, but that night they caught nothing.

Just after daybreak, Jesus stood on the beach; but the disciples did not know that it was Jesus. Jesus said to them, “Children, you have no fish, have you?” They answered him, “No.” He said to them, “Cast the net to the right side of the boat, and you will find some.” So they cast it, and now they were not able to haul it in because there were so many fish. That disciple whom Jesus loved said to Peter, “It is the Lord!” When Simon Peter heard that it was the Lord, he put on some clothes, for he was naked, and jumped into the sea. But the other disciples came in the boat, dragging the net full of fish, for they were not far from the land, only about a hundred yards off.

When they had gone ashore, they saw a charcoal fire there, with fish on it, and bread. 10 Jesus said to them, “Bring some of the fish that you have just caught.” 11 So Simon Peter went aboard and hauled the net ashore, full of large fish, a hundred fifty-three of them; and though there were so many, the net was not torn. 12 Jesus said to them, “Come and have breakfast.” Now none of the disciples dared to ask him, “Who are you?” because they knew it was the Lord. 13 Jesus came and took the bread and gave it to them, and did the same with the fish. 14 This was now the third time that Jesus appeared to the disciples after he was raised from the dead. [NSRV]

Jeff, I couldn’t help but think of the movie Forest Gump when I was imagining Simon Peter jump out of the boat. If you remember the scene, Forest jumps in the water and he’s trying to swim to Lieutenant Dan, and here we see Peter doing something similar.

But as you’ve already mentioned, the primary question of theology and therefore the heralding of the gospel is: who is this God revealed in Jesus Christ? So, what do the actions, the words of Jesus in this passage tell us about the Triune God?

Jeff: What a great passage! It says it’s a third time and when you think about, there might have been an in-between encounter that Jesus had just with Simon Peter before this. 1 Corinthians 15 seems to mention, he appeared to Peter, so I don’t know if this is the one that Paul’s talking about or not.

But the point is that we all know that Peter is fresh off of these three denials. And we’ve taught lots of sermons about [how] the three denials match the three questions, and that Peter had oddly put his clothes on before jumping in.

I have some thoughts about this passage that relate to what we’re talking about. When I think of a fishing net, first of all, I think of a matrix. I think of the placemat. And I think of the fact that, here are these fishermen—remember when Jesus first stepped into Peter’s boat? He was like, get away from me, Lord, I’m a sinful man. And Jesus said, don’t worry about it. Sinful people are all I got to work with, so I’m stepping into your boat.

But the point from the very beginning, there’s this contradiction in Simon Peter that Jesus seeks to speak into. And, if you wanted to think about this in theological, metaphorical terms, you could think of the fact of that net representing the tangled and conflicted humanity of those men in the boat.

It’s interesting that, Jesus tells them, throw it over on the right side of the boat, and that there’s this abundance. There’s nothing on the left side, call that the red side. And then there’s this abundance on the other side. And the red side, it speaks to me as the bad tree cannot produce any fruit, nothing, no fruit. No good fruit can come from the bad tree. It’s absolutely nothing. We have nothing in our flesh to offer. Flesh gives birth to flesh, not the Spirit, and we have nothing to offer there.

And it’s interesting that, if you wanted to look at this as John does (he’s telling this story), there’s lots of layers to it. If you wanted to excavate some of the layers, we could talk about the fact that the flesh produces nothing but flesh. The bad tree produces nothing but bad fruit. There’s nothing.

Apart from me, you cannot do a thing. John 15:5

So, you’ve got that part. And then you’ve got this abundance. It comes from the other side, and that is in the abundance of the Spirit. It’s not a static red and green, at all. These are two determinations, two movements that are going in each of us at the degree of 180, Barth says. They’re absolutely oppositional to one another. And in the Spirit though, we go from green to green to green to green; we go from fullness to fullness to fullness to fullness. It’s not a zero-sum increase. It’s the increase of the fullness that we have manifesting in such a way that it goes from completeness to completeness.

That’s what Peter experienced and all those guys experience in this catch of fish. That’s the first thing. And yet Peter still puts his clothes back on, which to me symbolizes that he’s still living in the shame and in the Genesis 2 and 3, as opposed to the Genesis 1 account. He’s clothed with shame, just as God mercifully clothed Adam and Eve after their shameful acts.

And so, this is interesting. And yet when Simon [Peter] gets there, he is exposed by Jesus, but in the most tender and loving way, allowing him to be reconciled, not only to him, but to one another—the disciples to one another.

Can you imagine? They were asking about each other at the table that night during the betrayal. Was it me, Lord? Was it me? Pointing at each other, wondering who it was. And even now they’re probably blaming each other. You ran away from Jesus. You ran away from Jesus. What about him? And then Jesus says, don’t worry about him; he has his own story here at the beach, on the fish fry day.

There’s a lot going on here, but one thing I want to hone in on before we jump is these three questions. Do you love me? 1 John tells us that we love God because he first loved us.

I believe in creation—and Julian of Norwich says this plain as day, it’s a beautiful passage—that when God created us, he loved us, and we loved him. Now, of course, that’s the case. When God created us, called us very good, he loved us, and we loved him. And what my book title means when it says created in Christ, Humanity in Christ Before, During, and After the Fall, means that total green never diminishes. Original sin is bad, but it’s not as deep and strong as original belonging.

The Spirit is deeper than the flesh, and the green is deeper than the red, so to speak. And what that tells me is that when Peter says, Lord, you know that I love you, he’s actually speaking truth back to God as a representative of every human being. And when we speak truth back to God, to me, that’s repentance.

It’s repentance to speak truth back to God because we know we can’t make the truth by our repentance, but we can participate in it. So, “you know that I love you,” harkens back really to Peter’s true self, which always loves God. And my contention is that every single person—no matter how villainous or how demonic their actions are in the flesh—every single person is living to God, loving the Lord, living to God in Christ Jesus (which means it’s moving from Jesus to the Father in the Spirit), loving the Lord with all their heart, soul, mind, and strength.

Every single person is doing that unconsciously before consciously. That’s what the ontology of the vicarious humanity of Christ teaches us. And that cannot be short circuited. That’s happening! That’s happening for every one of these disciples. Peter now is participating in that, “Lord, you know that I love you.”

Then Jesus says, okay, you’re onto something here. Let me just remind you that there’s transformative actions that cannot help but issue forth from the identity that I’ve given you in myself. And of course, Peter’s life was changed. You see that in the first chapters of Acts; the turnaround is absolutely amazing! And it’s not just the resurrection itself. It’s the love! It’s the love that changes him. And so, to me that’s really where it all begins for Simon Peter and his ministry.

Anthony: We see (and I heard you mention it) abundance, “right side of the boat” abundance. Just take a moment, Jeff, and describe the abundance of our God that you see born in this passage.

What can we take away about who God is and his abundance?

Jeff: It’s funny that they count the fish, isn’t it?

Anthony: It is! 153.

Jeff: I don’t know exactly what that means, but somebody might know [or] do a numerical study on that. And come up with what that means for John when he wrote that, when he recorded the number that day or from that tradition.

But I don’t know, but I do know that’s a lot. And I really think that it actually gives abundance a bad rap in a way, because it only represents the unlimited abundance of what Paul talks about in 2 Corinthians when he is talking about, from glory to glory [3:18]. One degree of glory to another sounds like a zero-sum game, but the actual words are from glory to glory, transformed into his likeness from glory to glory, likeness, image, likeness.

He talks in that same area of 2 Corinthians about Jesus Christ is the image of God. We’re created in the image; we’re created in Jesus Christ. And the abundance that comes from just who we are in Christ—which is the same as who we are in the Spirit. There’s never a point where, who we are in Christ is the foundation, and then we have to add the Spirit in later as if the Spirit is an add-on. It goes back to the idea that to do that is to diminish the homoousion, the oneness of being between the Son and the Spirit. Who we are in the Son and who we are in the  Spirit are not two different things.

Fullness of the Spirit is included in the total righteousness that we have in Christ. It’s not that we’re a gas tank on half full, and that then grows up to—that’s taking a worldly metaphor and undercutting the totality of who the Spirit is and how she has given us this abundance and the fullness that has been poured out on all flesh, as Pentecost bears witness to.

So, yes, this is abundance, baby! This is more abundance than we could shake a stick at. This is more abundance than we could imagine.

No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind can understand what God has prepared for those who love him. [1 Corinthians 2:9]

I used to think, okay am I one of the ones who loves him? And then I began to realize, yes! Because of what Jesus Christ and his vicarious humanity has done for every single human being, I love God. God loves me, and I love him. We love God because he first loved us is a literal statement. It’s not that God loved us first; now it’s up to us. Let’s see if we can love him back.

No, we love God because God first loved us. That is the ontology. It starts with God. And then it’s a reciprocal human response to God in the mediation of Christ. That is the template for every single human being and every single human relationship, every single human action.

Anthony: And there it is.


Small Group Discussion Questions

From Speaking of Life

  • Can you think of other examples where power led to corruption?
  • Contrast how the world typically thinks of power and how Jesus displayed power.
  • Discuss the difference between being masters of our own fates and captains of our own souls with being people who trust and rely on God’s grace.

From the sermon

  • The sermon noted how our Easter season celebration tends to dissipate after Easter Sunday. Can you see this parallel in your personal walk with the Lord? In what ways do we return to “business as usual” even after being encountered by the risen Lord?
  • The sermon pointed out how Peter was returning to living a “self-determined” life instead of following Jesus. Share how you have seen yourself slip back into self-determining patterns of thinking and acting instead of being a follower of Jesus.
  • How does the cultural inclination of self-determinism create damage in the church? What do you see in Jesus’ teaching and in his life that would counter the cultural fixation of self-determinism?
  • The sermon indicated that Jesus waited till “early in the morning” before appearing to the disciples to give them the opportunity to come to the end of their self-determined efforts. Do you sometimes wish Jesus would have showed up earlier than he did in your life? Can you think of examples where you had to come to a place where all your self-determined efforts amounted to “nothing” before you could recognize Jesus and what he was giving you?
  • The sermon pointed out how Jesus helped the disciples recognize him by personal reminders of his relationship to them. Can you think of times when Jesus reminded you of something personal in your relationship with him that helped you recognize him or know he was talking to you?
  • The sermon related how Peter’s eyes were opened when one of his fellow disciples said to him, “It is the Lord.” Can you think of times when it was another believer that helped you see Jesus when you had lost sight of him? What does this say about the importance of our fellowship with one another in the Lord? How might we help one another see Jesus?
  • The sermon claimed that the primary calling of any church “leader” is to be a follower of Christ. How does being a follower of Christ best equip one to be a leader in the church? What difference does it make for church leaders to first be followers?
  • After restoring Peter, Jesus instructs him to feed his sheep. According to the sermon, what should be the main diet the sheep are fed?

Sermon for May 8, 2022 – Fourth Sunday of Easter

Speaking Of Life 4024 | Not Wanting the Shepherd

Correctly interpreting scripture can be challenging. Yet, like a shepherd, Jesus’ voice guides us when we read the word of God. Even when the world says differently, may we find peace knowing that he is the Good Shepherd who will bring us into the light.

Program Transcript


Speaking Of Life 4024 | Not Wanting the Shepherd
Greg Williams

Have you ever misheard the lyrics to a song in a way that drastically changed the meaning? Most of us have done this at one time or another, perhaps you even had a favorite song that you only discovered years later that had a very different meaning than what you originally understood?

We have a word for that, it’s called ‘mondegreen’ – a misunderstood or misinterpreted phrase resulting from mishearing the lyrics of a song.

The consequences of mondegreen can be amusing or absurd. The next time you listen to Creedence Clearwater Revival sing Bad Moon on the Rise, instead of singing the song title during the chorus interject “There’s a bathroom on the right,” and you’ll see what I mean.

A colleague of mine shared a mondegreen he had as a child regarding the famous Psalm 23. This didn’t come from mishearing the words, so much as misunderstanding their meaning.

When he heard “The Lord’s my shepherd I shall not want” sung at church, he took it to mean that we shouldn’t want the Lord as our shepherd. Why wouldn’t we want Him as our shepherd you might ask?

Well because he’ll force you to lie down in green pastures all day!

It’s amazing how a glitch on a record, a syllable out of place, or a word changing its meaning over time can totally change how we perceive and understand a piece of music.

Part of the reason my colleague read the words of Psalm 23 in such a negative light, was because in the authoritarian church he grew up in, it made perfect sense to him why someone would not want to follow the judgemental and condemning image of God he had been presented with. He had been taught that God was a strict and demanding shepherd, not at all like the shepherd we read about in the book of Revelation.

In Revelation we are blessed with a glimpse of the end to come, the lamb sits upon the throne, and all are drawn before Him. Using language drawn from Psalm 23 and Isaiah 25 we are told in no uncertain terms what kind of Shepherd he will be:

For the Lamb at the center of the throne will be their shepherd; ‘he will lead them to springs of living water.’ ‘And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.’”
Revelation 7:17

In other words, he is the Good Shepherd.

The truth is that many people do not want the Lord as their shepherd. Often, this is because they have encountered a theological mondegreen. They’ve misheard, misunderstood, or have been deceived when it comes to the truth about God. As far as they’re concerned, there’s nothing good about him.

Without knowing the Good Shepherd, no other scripture, whether psalm, prophet, gospel, or epistle will be understood in its proper context. Without knowing Jesus, the Bible itself becomes an endless series of misheard lyrics drawing us down some theologically dubious rabbit holes.

Jesus is the Good Shepherd under whose care we shall want for nothing, the Shepherd who, filled with love and compassion, will wipe away every tear from our eyes. The Shepherd’s whose voice we will never mishear as He calls us by name.

I’m Greg Williams, Speaking of Life.

Psalm 23:1-6 • Acts 9:36-43 • Revelation 7:9-17 • John 10:22-30

On the fourth Sunday of Easter we witness how Jesus, the Good Shepherd, calls his people to himself. Our call to worship Psalm speaks of the Shepherd who cares for every need of his sheep. In Acts we read about Peter calling to Tabitha, and at the sound of his voice she follows, even from death. In Revelation we are greeted by the great scene of every believer who has been washed in the blood of the Lamb, and who have followed their Lord into eternity. Finally, in John Jesus declares to us that his sheep will hear his voice and follow him – that we are safe in the hands of the Father and the Son.

Rapt in Anticipation

John 10:22-30 NRSV

Read, or have someone read John 10:22-30 NRSV.

Most people don’t like being left in anticipation – they want to know what happens next – it brings them comfort and security. Good writers know this; that’s why they use things like cliff-hangers and foreshadowing to build the anticipation – knowing that you will keep reading or watching in the hope of returning to a place of certainty. The only thing worse than our favorite character in a novel being killed off, is the hint that they might be.

Share an example of what builds up an excited anticipation in you such as the example below.

For me it’s a cliff-hanger at the end of an episode of one of my favorite shows. You won’t see a stoic face when I finish a TV episode that ends on a good cliff hanger. There’s no bemused smile, just a furious impatience at not having all my entertainment needs immediately actualized. While the anticipation might not be killing me, it sure is killing my time as I Google theories on YouTube about what could happen next!

For the Jews who came to Jesus in our passage, they approached Jesus as though he were a character in such a story. Let’s look at how they spoke:

The Jews who were there gathered around him, saying, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Messiah, tell us plainly.” (John 10:24)

Those coming to Jesus wanted to know the end of the story; how could they make plans for the future when a potential messiah was on the loose? False messiahs had come and gone before, and the Jewish people were desperate to see the real Messiah arrive and bring about the change they were looking for. Yet Jesus had not revealed himself as the Messiah – this was a classic “Is he? Is he not?” narrative!

Or was it? Jesus’ response is telling and probably didn’t contain the spoilers they were looking for:

Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, but you do not believe because you are not my sheep.” (John 10:25-26)

Jesus sees through the people’s desire to view the Messiah like the next big thing to chat about around the water cooler. Why do these people want to know if he’s the Messiah? So they can follow him? This seems unlikely. Jesus tells us right here an important point. These are not people of his flock; even were he to declare himself the Messiah here and now they would not follow him (quite the opposite we find out.) They’re not seeking the Messiah to follow – they’re seeking the next big story, the scandal of the year. They’re seeking resolution to their anticipation – they want to know not if Jesus is the Messiah – but if he is going to claim to be the Messiah. Because if he does, the sparks are going to fly – that’s when the story gets juicy. And those posing the question intend to be part of the story.

A Messiah besieged

The Greek word that’s translated “gathered around” in verse 24 has sinister connotations – it’s only used one other place, in Luke 21:20 to describe the Romans surrounding Jerusalem before destroying it – in other words, a siege. And given we know that these very people tried to stone Jesus, it colors our understanding of the narrative. So, when they tell Jesus “Don’t keep us in suspense!” there are other motivations at play. It might help to read the passage in a more mocking tone, given we can see their ill intent.

Yet amidst all of this, Jesus takes the opportunity to continue his lesson. The context for our passage is rich, it is part of Jesus’ last public address before his crucifixion in the gospel of John. And we are told he is speaking at Hannukah – the Festival of Dedication. It’s wintertime, and the group are gathered in Solomon’s Colonnade, a section of the temple that allowed people to shelter from the cold while still hearing teaching. Hannukah reminded the Jewish people to beware of false leaders who lead you astray. Ezekiel 34 would frequently be read during this time, a passage that warns Israel to avoid the false shepherds and cling to the Good Shepherd.

So as the people huddle together for warmth, teaching and discussion Jesus has already made an incredibly bold claim – he is the Good Shepherd (John 10:14). This is what he is referring to when he tells them in verse 25, “I did tell you, but you do not believe.” In no uncertain terms, Jesus has declared who he is to the people who are now questioning him. And they knew it too – in verse 33 they tell him their reason for stoning him is that he has claimed “to be God.” Throughout his ministry Jesus has avoided the question of messiahship, as it would have hindered his ministry. Yet here he does not shy away – he gives the group besieging him exactly what they want. Why?

All for the sheep

The clue is in what he says next, and just as importantly, who he says it to:

“My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.” – (John 10:27-30)

Jesus has already established for us that those who are besieging him are not his sheep. Yet the words he speaks here are words of incredible encouragement to anyone who would identify as a follower of Jesus. They are words of great encouragement to us. Jesus is speaking to all his sheep – any who are included among those huddled from the cold in Solomon’s Colonnade, to believers scattered around the globe for the past 2,000 years, and to us. There is one clear message conveyed to us here, we have heard his voice; we are to follow.

This section of Scripture teaches us three things about our life in Jesus:

  1. Being part of the flock is to both receive a gift, and be a gift
  2. Eternal life is just that, eternal
  3. We are secure in the hands of the Father and the Son
  4. Being part of the flock is to both receive a gift and be a gift

Without delving too deeply into the incredibly complex debate of predestination right now, this we can say: our ability to hear the Shepherd and follow is a freely given gift from the Father. But what is more, we are also a gift to Jesus from the Father – given and received in love, by the power of the Holy Spirit who has opened our ears to hear Jesus.

This certainty reassures as – there is nothing we can do to escape the love of God, which we have been given by the Father, received by the Son, through the Holy Spirit. The fullness of God’s triune being has defined what it means to be one of his children.

  1. Eternal Life is just that, eternal

Perhaps when you’ve tried to conceive the concept of eternity, you’ve either struggled to conceive of it at all, or you went too deep and ended up in an existential crisis induced panic attack. It is a hard concept to get our heads around. But here Jesus summarizes the eternal part for us beautifully, we shall never perish. We know from John 17:3 that eternal life is coming to know God fully – life forever with God. And now, this passage tells us we will not cease to exist in this life with God. Perhaps this not ceasing to exist thing is a bit easier to conceptualize than the living forever bit, and certainly it induces fewer existential crises.

  1. We are secure in the hands of the Father and the Son

Jesus tells us that not only can we not be plucked from his firm and almighty grip, but that furthermore we are also in the grip of the Father. In this statement he makes it clear that in giving us to Jesus, the Father does not let go of us. It is the certainty of our place in the fold of God that allows the apostle Paul to write this:

For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Romans 8:38-39).

We need fear no thing and no one for we are in the hands of God, safe and secure.

Jesus concludes this passage with a clear statement of unity with the Father – “I and the Father are one.” This statement is referring to unity of will and purpose. He is reaffirming the certainty of purpose that God has toward his sheep, the future is secure in his hands. There’s no villain coming back from the dead for a final scare, no ironic defeat for the heroes at the last moment, no bogeyman that spirits us away from our life in God.

This is the good news of the Good Shepherd. Though our lives might sometimes have the drama of a serial TV series, we don’t have any cliff hangers, we need not wring our hands in rapt anticipation of how the story ends. We know for certainty the parts that matter:

We will know God amid his abundant gift-giving love.

We will not perish.

There will be no twist endings.

Glory be to God.

Resurrection Fish Fry w/ Jeff McSwain W2

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May 8 – 4th Sunday of Easter
John 10:22-30 “One Love”

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Program Transcript


Resurrection Fish Fry w/ Jeff McSwain W2

Anthony: Jeff, let’s move on to our second passage, which is John 10:22-30. It’s the Revised Common Lectionary passage for the 4th Sunday of Easter, May 8.

Brother, would you do us the honors of reading this particular passage?

Jeff:

22 Then came the Festival of Dedication at Jerusalem. It was winter, 23 and Jesus was in the temple courts walking in Solomon’s Colonnade. 24 The Jews who were there gathered around him, saying, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Messiah, tell us plainly.”

25 Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.” [NIV]

Anthony: Based on what you’ve already said, Jeff (in part you’ve already answered this), but the way we read this passage, Jesus said that the Jews don’t belong to his sheep.

So how do we reconcile the statement when our theological imaginations want to believe that every person belongs to God? What do we do with it?

Jeff: They’re definitely not acting like his sheep. They’re getting ready to slaughter the shepherd! It’s interesting. I think that the way Jesus talks—he also says the Pharisees are children of the devil; they’re not children of Abraham. He uses this kind of hyperbole to let people know that, of course they’re children of Abraham, the Pharisees. But he uses this hyperbole. (And he says that even later in that same passage in John 8, I think.)

But the point is that when you’re not acting like it, your actions—is Jean Vanier wicked? Yes! That’s not all that we can say though, about Jean Vanier. And so, when you adopt this Christological anthropology as the lens with which to read scripture, then we can say, in their flesh, they’re acting like children of the devil. They are children of the devil. They are not; they don’t belong to Jesus.

They’re the types of people that come up to Jesus and say, I did this in your name and that in your name. And it says here, Jesus does these miracles in the Father’s name. They say, I did this in your name and that in your name. And Jesus said, get away from me. I never knew you. [Matthew 7:22-23]

He doesn’t know them in the flesh, in a sense. He doesn’t know them in the flesh because that’s not who they are. The flesh is only parasitic to the indicative truth of who we are in Jesus Christ. And Jesus draws those delineations quite often. And they’re meant to show the severity of the anti-reality, the antichrist. Sometimes I might say the unreality, but “unreality” sometimes can communicate that the bad things aren’t really happening or that they don’t hurt. No! They hurt like hell, but that’s because of the good news or the indicative in contrast to that. Yes, it hurts. The contrast is painful and deadly.

And this is an example of people who should have known better, who are actually hurting the sheep who are following Jesus, because they are acting in such an antichrist way. And their father is the devil in these existential actions; they’re showing this is the “wolf” off the chain.

They’re showing the flesh in the way that Jesus is here to eradicate such thing. That’s why he came, in order to destroy sin, death, and the devil. In Romans 6, right before the passage of living to God, it talks about our old selves were crucified with him [verse 6] (that goes along with Galatians 2:20).

We can live out of one or the other of the two totals. If I stand up in front of you and say, I’m a 100% righteous, I’d get laughed out of the room, especially by people who know me. But if I stand up and say, I’m a 100% evil, I’d get laughed out of the room too. That’s not what we see, like you said, but our actions do manifest from the two totals.

If we walk by sight and not by faith, we won’t get it. We’ll judge people by their actions and define them by their mistakes. And so, Jesus is not doing that here. He’s not making an ontological claim about these people. And if it is an ontological claim, it’s the pseudo-ontology, the anti-ontology because as Barth says, there is no ontological godlessness. Absolutely not!

The only godlessness that can happen is a pseudo-ontology at best, which would be just very, very deep, deeper than we can fathom, more evil than we could ever comprehend, but not as deep as grace.

And where sin increases grace increases all the more. [Romans 5:20]

So, it always has to be in that asymmetrical relation. And I think that, when Jesus is talking about the sheep, he’s not talking about it in categorical terms, in terms of who’s a sheep and who’s not. Who’s elect, and who’s reprobate. He’s talking about it more in terms of how this is playing out and calling them out on it.

When he says he doesn’t know these people who are doing these things in his name (to use that other passage,) he knows them on his terms. He knows them on terms of grace. He knows them on terms that they are created in Christ, living to God. And here Jesus Christ himself, of all people, knows that. But he also knows—because he knows that so well—he also knows sin really well and sees the contrast and calls it out when he sees it.

And that actually is a real blessing. If we can really get into our bones, how good grace is, we’ll be better able to call sin out in ourselves and see it in the world. It’ll be more exposed; the contrast will be more apparent. There’s not a lot of contrast in a zero-sum game because the line’s so arbitrary and it just gets mixed together.

But in a total-total—as Barth would say, the old man from top to toe and the new man from top to toe—then all of a sudden you see this conflict. But as Barth would say, it’s not a hopeless conflict or else we wouldn’t even have this conversation. But he [Barth] says, “I was and still am the old man. I am and will be the new man.”

We’re both of those in the present, but I was and still am the old man; I am and will be the new. But the two present tense “I am” statements in this life were together. They were together for the Pharisees. They’re together for these people in this passage. They’re together for every one of us now. They were together from Genesis 2:4 on, in my opinion. And that’s part of what I write about in the book.

Anthony: “The Father and I are one.”

Jeff, that feels fairly weighty, and we have talked about it. Anything more that you want to add about the oneness, the sameness, the substance of Father in Jesus.

Jeff: Of course, I always go back to TF Torrance and the Torrances. Studying under Alan, of course, I asked him if I could do it on his uncle and his dad, JB. And he was kind of shy about it, and he goes, yeah, that’s fine. I think Alan’s his own theologian and his own thinker.

But it was a privilege for me to be able to do my work under Alan, and I have the highest regard for him. I think about [how the] Torrances talk—and I’m sure other people who’ve interviewed, probably talk about Torrance—about there is no God behind the back of Jesus Christ. There’s no God behind God, back in the shadows with a frown on his face. And Jesus is the nice guy with a smile on his face. We really have to be able to trust that the God we see in Jesus Christ is God. And the Yahweh of the Old Testament is perfectly revealed to us in Jesus Christ, the God who created the world, who came into the world and the world didn’t recognize him.

The light that gives light to every person was coming into the world. This is the God who became flesh. And so that we could know what God was really like. And that wiggle room that often gets inserted between who God is and who Jesus is, has to go away. And that’s why Jesus says, guys, quit asking me to see the Father; he who’s seen me as seen the Father. And to really be able to trust that picture.

That’s also why, oftentimes, I call TF Torrance—and I came to Barth through TF and JB’s work—but I often call TF and JB, the godfathers of Reality Ministries, because it’s this whole paradigm that we’re talking about, this folding into the relationship that Christ has with the Father. The oneness that they have, that Jesus then, by adoption, we get to be included in his Sonship.

So, we’re not just included in God in a vague way. We’re included in the Son of the Father and in the Holy Spirit. And so, through the vicarious humanity of what Christ does in representing us, we really are able to enjoy that unity and oneness that’s derivative of the unity and oneness that Jesus has with the Father and Jesus has with the other persons in the holy Trinity as Son of God.

So yes, that oneness is critical, Anthony. And if we get away from that, then we come into all kinds of terrible theological train wrecks, about Jesus loves me, but I’m not too sure about God. Or maybe God loves me because Jesus loves me, but not really directly. Maybe he tolerates me because Jesus loves me, or Jesus died from me. But yeah, we could get into all the different bifurcations that come into play when it comes to getting rid of our or interpreting anything less than what the Nicene Creed calls the homoousion, the oneness of being between God the Father and the Son.

And then of course, Athanasius’s letter to Serapion is very clear that the homoousion is also related to the Holy Spirit. And that’s very critical for us in regard to this understanding of the total of who we are as human beings in Christ: we are full of the Spirit. We’re not just in Christ, but someday, maybe full of the Spirit.

And any expressions of fullness that we see, in those moments where we feel full of the Spirit. Or we say, that guy is full of the Spirit. Or we have a feeling in ourselves that we’re full of the Spirit. That’s the fullness that’s manifesting. It all comes from this idea of the real unity that we have by grace in the Son of God, which is derivative of that same unity that the Son has by nature with the Father.

Anthony: As I’ve heard said, everything hinges on it. Amen and amen.


Small Group Discussion Questions

Questions for sermon

  • What is likely to get you buzzing with anticipation?
  • When you’re anticipating “what’s going to happen next” in your life, do you remember to bring God into the equation? How would the “what next” question look without him?
  • When you contemplate eternity, do you draw a blank? Does it help to think in terms of “not perishing” to frame your attempts to comprehend eternity with God?
  • Gush a little bit about how great it is to have your future certain and secure in God’s hands – it’s good for the soul.

Questions for Speaking of Life

  • Do you have a mondegreen of your own you’d like to share? (A mondegreen is a misheard lyric that totally changes the meaning of a line of phrase in a song.)
  • Have you ever had a time where you’d rather not have God as your shepherd? Why? Was it due to a misunderstanding about him, or something you didn’t want to have to change?
  • How does knowing God is the Good Shepherd (as opposed to a bad one!) help us understand the rest of Scripture?

Sermon for May 15, 2022 – Fifth Sunday in Easter

Speaking Of Life 4025 | No One Special, Just Chosen

Differences often become excuses for us to exclude and separate. We even do this unconsciously, based on someone’s appearance, language, or outfit. This Easter season, let us be reminded that Jesus invites us into his kingdom, no matter our differences. He came to restore all of humanity with his love and peace!

Program Transcript


Speaking Of Life 4025 | No One Special, Just Chosen
Cara Garrity

“Circle, circle, dot, dot, now I got my cootie shot. Circle, circle, square square, now I got them everywhere.” Is a common playground rhyme chanted to tease or exclude another kid.

As humans, it is easy for us to focus on what makes us different, or ostracize a person or group to create an in-crowd. We see a situation like this occur in the life of the early church, about how to welcome Gentiles—non-Jewish people—into the community of faith. This conversation seems especially foreign to us—a mostly Gentile audience, centuries removed. We must keep in mind that for generations keeping the law was the marker of the faithfulness of God’s chosen people of Israel. A big part of that law included dietary restrictions.

So Peter’s strange dream in Acts 11 tells us that God is doing something new:

I was in the city of Joppa praying, and in a trance I saw a vision, something like a great sheet descending, being let down from heaven by its four corners, and it came down to me. Looking at it closely, I observed animals and beasts of prey and reptiles and birds of the air. And I heard a voice saying to me,
‘Rise, Peter; kill and eat.’
Acts 11:5-7 (ESV)

According to Jewish law and custom, the animals in Peter’s dream were considered unclean. Anything “unclean” was considered contagious and invoked experiences of separation from God and others. It was one thing that separated Jews from Gentiles. The invitation to Peter to rise, kill, and eat was an invitation to break down that separation and participate in a new way of being God’s people.

This was a revolutionary statement that wholeness and redemption are found in Jesus alone, not by external laws and customs. Inclusion of Gentile Christians then, was not conditional upon adopting the practices of Jewish law and custom but upon Christ. God’s chosen people were no longer marked by custom but by faith.

Sadly, we the Church, still lean toward separation as we struggle with questions of chosenness and inclusion. We sometimes rely upon a behavior or external indicator to prove our worth as a follower of Jesus. Or we use our understanding of normative Christian customs as criteria to dismiss or exclude someone else. This negates the inclusive message God gave to Peter. All are included and invited to participate in what God is doing – bringing many sons and daughters to glory.

This Easter season as we celebrate the newness of life found in our resurrected King, I invite you to participate in a new way of being God’s people. A new way that relies on Jesus alone as proof of our chosenness. A new way of radical inclusion in Christ. In Jesus, we are reconciled to God and one another, not by custom, but by his broken body raised to glorious life again.

I’m Cara Garrity, Speaking of Life.

Psalm 148:1-14 • Acts 11:1-18 • Revelation 21:1-6 • John 13:31-35

Our theme for this week is all hail King Jesus. Our call to worship Psalm gives us a picture of every creature – from those in the fathomless depths to those sitting on thrones – bowing the knee to the true King. Acts 11 gives us the story of the gospel going from the Hebrew people into all the world, exactly according to plan. Revelation 21 shows us the final picture of the New Jerusalem—the new heavens and earth—where Jesus reigns forever. Our sermon comes from John 13, where King Jesus shares with us the secret to living like his royal family: Love.

Jesus, A Candid Shot

John 13:31-35 ESV

Read, or have someone read John 13:31-35 ESV.

Muhammad Ali standing in triumph over Sonny Liston. Albert Einstein sticking his tongue out for the camera. Jackie Onassis standing regal in black next to her son as he saluted at JFK’s funeral.

These are some of the most famous pictures in recent history. They don’t just portray a person; they encapsulate a moment. These candid shots capture the personality, the ethos of the person by getting the context just right for just the right moment.

Ali’s braggadocio and twentieth century optimism. Einstein’s mad genius. Jackie’s proud stylishness even in her most tragic moment. Theses photographs capture who they are.

There are many moments like this in the life of Jesus, but one of the most poignant takes place in John 13. The opening of the chapter sets the scene:

Now before the Feast of the Passover, when Jesus knew that his hour had come to depart out of this world to the Father, having loved his own who were in the world, he loved them to the end. During supper, when the devil had already put it into the heart of Judas Iscariot, Simon’s son, to betray him, Jesus, knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands, and that he had come from God and was going back to God, rose from supper. He laid aside his outer garments, and taking a towel, tied it around his waist. (John 13:1-4 ESV)

In this verbal crescendo so many things come together: Jesus’ death, Judas’s betrayal, and the enthronement of Christ. And the Lord’s reaction in this quantum moment is to wash feet. This act was the work of a slave, considered one of the lowliest duties.

In that culture, slaves were a common sight. They were part of daily life. They weren’t particularly loved or hated—they were just necessary. They were treated, for the most part, with consistent disregard. Slaves were essentially appliances.

And this is what Jesus chooses to do. This is the picture—like the boxer, the genius, the President’s wife—that encapsulates who he is.

Let’s look at this famous moment and see what we can learn:

  • The example
  • The command
  • The indicator

The example

On a spring day in 1981, a mentally disturbed young man attempted to assassinate then Pope John Paul II. He shot the Pope four times, with each bullet making contact, and the pontiff was critically wounded. The Pope made a slow but full recovery. Two years later, he visited the young man in prison to forgive him in a private conversation. One of the most famous pictures of his ministry was taken of him gently talking with his would-be killer. That’s the heart of someone who understands forgiveness, who learned from Jesus’ example here in John’s gospel and elsewhere.

To really explore the depths of John 13, we need to pay attention to the sequence of events. The disciples come together for the Passover meal. They eat together. Jesus gets up to wash feet and has the famous conversation with Peter, addressing the fisherman’s trademark enthusiasm.

Jesus then finishes the slave’s work of washing feet and reclines back at the table. It’s shortly after this that he dismisses Judas to do his dark work, and the narrative goes on.

Let’s pause right there – it’s easy to ignore that detail. Jesus washed Judas’s feet! Knowing what he was just about to do, knowing that Satan would enter Judas momentarily. Jesus knew this and didn’t hesitate for a moment to wash Judas’s feet. Those feet might have still been damp when Judas left to betray him.

Pull even further back, and you see how people sat at the table. Famously, John sat next to Jesus and rested his head on Jesus’ chest at the end of the meal. This would have been a common placement for a guest of honor at a meal. But look how Jesus signifies that Judas will be the one to betray him:

Jesus answered, “It is he to whom I will give this morsel of bread when I have dipped it.” So when he had dipped the morsel, he gave it to Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot. (John 13:26 ESV)

Why was Judas right there to receive the morsel of bread? Because Judas was seated right next to Jesus! Whether he was placed there by someone else or took the place himself, we don’t know. But Jesus shared the table—right next to him—with the man he knew would betray him.

This is the example. This is that candid shot of who Jesus is: sharing a dish with his betrayer, washing the traitor’s feet. Jesus shares that example before he starts commenting on it at all. He speaks to the disoriented, uncomfortable disciples to say: “This. This right here. What I just did, this is what the kingdom is like.”

Then John punctuates this scene with his characteristic use of light and dark in describing Judas:

So, after receiving the morsel of bread, he immediately went out. And it was night. (John 13:30 NRSV)

The command

“A new commandment I give you…” (John 13:34)

And with these words, Jesus unlocks all of human history and human potential. This is the hinge it all hangs upon: love, even before you are loved. Love, even when you don’t receive payment or reward, even when your love is unrequited. Love because loving is its own reward. Love for its own sake, just like Jesus did in washing feet, even those of Judas.

In the culture of the time, there was a steady exchange of honor. I honor you by getting you a gift, you honor me by getting me a gift. I honor you by showing you hospitality, and my honor profile is raised in the community, which means status and better connections and networking. There was a strong cultural exchange of quid pro quo.

And we see the same in our society as well. Giving gifts with the expectation of getting something back. Networking to make connections that will pay off in the future. I scratch your back, you scratch mine. Yet in ancient times and in our own, we all know there is something more. There is something better about giving freely, something that brings us joy and meaning and lightness of heart. Even when there’s no one there to applaud the action, we know that selfless giving brings us some of our greatest joy.

Jesus articulated what that “something more” is all about. He made sense of the human journey and the very human urge to give and told us: That’s the key. Giving before we are given to, participating in generosity: these urges to give are the only reason that humanity has survived, and they are the key to humanity thriving.

CS Lewis articulates it vividly:

Meanwhile the cross comes before the crown and tomorrow is a Monday morning. A cleft has opened in the pitiless walls of the world, and we are invited to follow our great Captain inside. The following Him is, of course, the essential point. (Lewis, the Weight of Glory)

To know Jesus, to follow the servant’s way of Jesus, is to walk through that cleft in the “pitiless walls of the world.” Instead of dog-eat-dog, instead of the brutal cycle of seeking and losing status, we’re invited to follow the Lord who scrubbed toes, who took the posture of dishonor because he knew it was his greatest glory. We’re called to be truly free to love.

The great irony of Jesus’ enthronement begins. The language and detail of Jesus’ crucifixion the next day portray his passion as his enthronement. He is given a purple robe (Mark 15); he is given a reed in his hand in a cruel imitation of a scepter (Matthew 27); and he is coronated with a crown of thorns. When this king is exalted, he is “lifted up” (John 12) onto the rough wood of a cross.

Jesus calls us along this royal path. He calls us not simply to love our neighbors as ourselves, but to love as he loves––without expectation, without caveat, without condition.

The indicator

Think about who is in the room when Jesus speaks these words:

  • Peter – a leather-neck hot-head
  • Simon the Zealot – a terrorist who fought Rome with violence
  • Matthew – a tax collector who made his money by selling out to Rome
  • Thomas – a self-protective skeptic
  • John–A young follower of John the Baptist who was likely half revolutionary and half confused mystic.

And several others who were all over the map in terms of loyalties, backgrounds, and character. These are the people to whom Jesus gives his great commandment and gives a workshop on how the commandment is to be lived out in daily life. He then gives the primary indicator of the people who follow Jesus:

“By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.” (John 13:35 ESV)

Jesus started with an intensely divided group to show what Christian unity would eventually look like. We have biblical records of infighting and one-upmanship in the ranks of the apostles, but Jesus knew this, and still chose them. He then gave them this dubious indicator of his presence: If you love each other, they’ll know you belong to me.

Two great theologians, John Wesley and George Whitefield, were huge influences in England’s Evangelical Revival in the 1700s. In a time without internet, television, or much media to speak of at all, these renowned orators would have been some of the biggest pop stars around. And these two were famous theological rivals. They wrote against each other and spoke against each other, holding differing views within the same faith. Their disagreement was as famous as their reputations.

At one point, one of Whitefield’s followers ventured the question, “We won’t see Wesley in heaven, will we?”
Whitefield replied, “No.”
The man then conjectured, “So you don’t think Wesley knows Jesus?”
Whitefield declared, “No! He will be so close to the throne of God and we so far away that we won’t be able to see him from where we sit!”

Years later, when Whitefield died, he requested that Wesley himself would speak at the funeral. So, great disagreement fomented between these two men, great differences in the theological details of their understanding of faith, but also great love.

That’s the indicator. That’s our first and last witness to the hope that is within us: love. For Jesus to bring together his group of twelve, and for us still to hold fellowship as the 2.5 billion Christ-followers in the world today, is the primary indicator that we are his disciples. Think of the love that works in a complicated relationship like that of Wesley and Whitefield, or those of differing political opinions, social classes, racial backgrounds, economic levels—this is the other-worldly love that Jesus is talking about, and it transforms everything it touches.

So, let’s look at what happened in that moment, in the upper room, over a clay basin of water, centuries ago:

The example – Judas’s feet were washed clean when he left to betray Jesus. Our Lord took the posture of a servant, even to his betrayer as an example of what his kingdom looks like. Where can we take the posture of a servant in our daily lives? Where can we take it as a church in our community?

The commandment – Jesus unlocks the key to the surviving and thriving of humanity: Loving, while expecting nothing in return. The only way our race will survive is if we learn to give and love without expecting to have our back scratched in return. To do this is the way of Jesus, and the secret to true freedom. Do we love first? Do we preemptively love others?

The indicator – “They’ll know we are Christians by our love,” the old song goes. Wesley and Whitefield show us that even before we can have our theology hammered out to the last detail, we can still share love. The apostles – very different men from radically diverse backgrounds – eventually served, and some even died alongside each other because they had Christ’s world-stopping, self-sacrificial love for each other. How can we experience this harmony? How can we be an agent of healing in our church family?

The great theologian Francis Shaeffer called love and unity the “final apologetic.” We can argue the logic of the Christian story with eloquence and undeniable force, but the “final apologetic” that brings people to faith is not clever presentation; it is love.

This year’s theme in Grace Communion International is “Compelled by love.” His love compels us to listen to others, to honor each other’s opinions, to respect each other’s differences, to look at others as beloved children of God. His love compels us to reach out to neighbors and friends and share God’s love and life with them, telling them that they already belong to God, and we want them to know the one they belong to. We are compelled by love, because otherwise, as Paul said, and it still rings true, “If we have not love, we are nothing.”

Resurrection Fish Fry w/ Jeff McSwain W3

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May 15 – 5th Sunday of Easter
John 13:31-35 “The New Commandment”

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Program Transcript


Resurrection Fish Fry w/ Jeff McSwain W3

Anthony: Our next passage is John 13:31 – 35. It’s the Revised Common Lectionary passage for the 5th Sunday of Easter on May the 15th. And it reads:

31 When he had gone out, Jesus said, “Now the Son of Man has been glorified, and God has been glorified in him. 32 If God has been glorified in him, God will also glorify him in himself and will glorify him at once. 33 Little children, I am with you only a little longer. You will look for me; and as I said to the Jews so now I say to you, ‘Where I am going, you cannot come.’ 34 I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. 35 By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.” [NRSV]

Jesus didn’t say, you will know my disciples by their influence. He didn’t say, you will know my disciples by their pious stands and culture wars. He didn’t say, you’ll know my disciples by their admiration and use of strength in geopolitical scenes. Jesus said, you will know my disciples if they love one another.

Jeff, what do you want to say about this?

Jeff: Let’s start out with just the premise again: the Lord loves us, and we love the Lord. That’s the ontology of it. It also means that we love our neighbors, one to another. That love is also the ontology of it.

And all reconciliation then has to happen from reconciliation. It’s not a hypothetical. We start with reconciliation to move towards reconciliation. And so, when it comes to this idea of loving God and loving one another, we can start with that.

Jesus says later in John 15, that he dies for his friends. And in Romans 5, Paul talks about the fact Christ died for us while we were sinners and while we were enemies. So, are we friends or are we enemies of God? It says he dies for his friends. Another place says he dies for his enemies. Yes, doggone-it! He died for his friends because they turned into enemies, but they never have stopped being his friends.

And in this world, we’re enemies with one another in many ways. White people have been the enemy of black people in America. Full stop. And you wouldn’t blame any person of color for not trusting a white person in what they say or do. You wouldn’t blame them. Any time there’s a mutual relationship attested by both sides of friendship, then that’s the created and redeemed order manifesting.

But we have to also call out the many, many ways (macro and micro strands of the red) that we see that have kept us from that love that we have from one another and have destroyed a lot of—have been antithetical and anti-Christ actions and need to be repented and confessed in such a way that more of the indicative truth, the ontological truth of who we are in Christ, who we are with one another, can be manifested in this world in a way that brings hope and healing and can be the balm of Gilead on the wounds of so many that have been wounded by the “us versus them” economy of evil.

Anthony: Amen and amen.


Small Group Discussion Questions

Questions for sermon:

  • Can you think a candid shot (in news or movies or other media) that captured the essence of a person?
  • What do you think of Jesus’ relationship with Judas, especially in that last night? Even though Jesus knew he would end up the way he did, Jesus chose him. Why?
  • Talk about yourself for a minute. If someone was to take a candid shot that would encapsulate the best of you, what would you be doing?
  • We don’t have slaves in most of the world today. In our time, what’s the equivalent of washing feet? How do we serve in this way?

Questions for Speaking of Life

  • We talked about how the story of redemption—from the giving of the law to the resurrection of Jesus—is all one story. No mistakes, one grand narrative. Have you thought of it that way before? Is that a helpful perspective?
  • God’s people are marked out by faith and love, rather than customs and traditions. Are those things—faith and love—more difficult to practice than keeping certain customs?
  • Do you think of yourself as part of Jesus’ grand narrative of faith? How might that change our perspective?

Quote to ponder:

“Our love will not be perfect, but it must be substantial enough for the world to be able to observe or it does not fit into the structure or the verses in John 13 and John 17. And if the world does not observe this among true Christians, the world has a right to make two awful judgments which these verses indicate: that we are not Christians and that Christ was not sent by the Father.” ~Francis Schaefer, American theologian

Sermon for May 22, 2022 – Sixth Sunday of Easter

Speaking Of Life 4026 | Don’t Settle for Less

Have you ever settled for less in your relationships? Healthy relationships are not easy to maintain and require intentional hard work. David reminds us in the Psalms that our loving Father is inviting us into a relationship with him. Even when we’re tired and ready to give up, he continues to pursue us with love and compassion.

Program Transcript


Speaking Of Life 4026 | Don’t Settle for Less
Greg Williams

Have you ever settled for less in your relationships? Healthy relationships don’t come easy and there is always a temptation to avoid the hard work they require. So, when there’s conflict, we may opt to settle for “agreeing to disagree” instead of working through the painful process that leads to reconciliation and peace. Or, we might opt to settle for shallow relationships that do not require the continual investment that deep ones demand. Whenever we settle for less in our relationships, we rob ourselves of the joy they can bring.

What about our relationship with God? How much joy do we abandon when we settle for less in our relationship with the Lord? Why would we settle when there is so much to gain?

C.S. Lewis provides some insight to answer that question. He says, “It would seem that our Lord finds our desires not too strong, but too weak. We are half-hearted creatures, fooling about with drink and sex and ambition when infinite joy is offered us, like an ignorant child who wants to go on making mud pies in a slum because he cannot imagine what is meant by the offer of a holiday at the sea. We are far too easily pleased.”

Thankfully, our Lord is not so easily pleased when it comes to relationships. He aims to continually bring us into the deeper waters of our relationship with him. He has already done the hard work of reconciliation so we can now, by the Spirit, participate in the joyous relationship the Son and his Father share. And when we are tempted to settle, Jesus never will. Because of his strong and unshakable desire to be with us, we can continually seek to know him with all our heart, soul, and strength.

Listen to this Psalm and the joy expressed that comes in knowing the Lord, not just for us, but for the entire world.

“May God be gracious to us and bless us
    and make his face to shine upon us,
Selah
that your way may be known upon earth,
    your saving power among all nations.
Let the peoples praise you, O God;
    let all the peoples praise you.

Let the nations be glad and sing for joy,
    for you judge the peoples with equity
    and guide the nations upon earth.
Selah

Let the peoples praise you, O God;
    let all the peoples praise you.

The earth has yielded its increase;
    God, our God, has blessed us.
May God continue to bless us;
    let all the ends of the earth revere him.”

 Psalm 67:1-7 (NRSV)

The word “selah” is like an intermission – a pause to consider what was just said or sang. David wants you and I to pause and consider the truth that the Lord’s face is shining on you today, bringing more joy and blessing than you can possibly imagine. I encourage you to turn to him to enjoy the relationship he desires to give you. Why settle for anything less?

I’m Greg Williams, Speaking of Life.

Psalm 67:1-7 • Acts 16:9-15 • Revelation 21:10, 22-22:5 • John 14:23-29

This week’s theme is the Lord’s hospitality. The call to worship Psalm is a song of praise and thanksgiving to the Lord, which includes a prayer that all people of all nations will join in. The selection from Acts records the hospitality of Lydia as a response to having her heart opened by the Lord. The Gospel text from John records Jesus’ words regarding those who are at home in the Father’s love. A reading from Revelation presents an inviting vision of the New Jerusalem whose gates are always open.

Significant Peace

John 14:23-29 (NRSV)

This week we enter the Sixth Sunday of Easter, with only one more Sunday left to celebrate. But this Sunday will precede Ascension Thursday, with the story of Jesus departing from the disciples and returning to his Father. Many churches may choose next Sunday to close out their Easter season celebration with this story, if they do not hold a special Thursday service. So today gives us an opportunity to prepare for that event. Hopefully our journey through the Easter season has been one of encouragement and hope. Recounting the appearances of Jesus to his disciples has given us an encounter with the risen Lord as well. But with Ascension Thursday around the corner, along with the close of the Easter season, it’s sometimes easy to think, “Well, that was good, what now?” Have you ever faced a time when you wondered if your encounters with the Lord were over? It seems to happen right after a spiritual high – a time you know God has been present in your life. These highs can sometimes be followed by a perceived spiritual low – when we question if God is still present.

You wonder if Jesus’ disciples saw his ascension as a sudden and unexpected end to their celebration of his resurrection. Very much like we can feel during those times we question God’s personal presence in our lives.

Jesus knew his disciples would not understand his departure with his ascension any more than they understood his departure at the cross. So, he takes time to comfort and encourage his disciples by helping them understand what he is doing. Our text for today revisits Jesus spending time with his disciples before his departure to encourage them. In his words to them, we also can hear him speaking comfort and encouragement to us for those times we question what he is doing.

Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.” (John 14:23-24 NRSV)

The passage begins with “Jesus replied.” So, we should look back to see what he is replying to before moving forward. The context of this passage is the conversation Jesus is having with the disciples at the Lord’s table. He has told them that he is going away, and Judas (not Iscariot) is puzzled. He, along with the other disciples, thought Jesus was going to reveal himself as the champion of Israel, restoring the Jews to power. Judas’ question is, “Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?” Have you ever had that question? If we know the Lord, we know what truth and freedom really is. We know the love of the Father for the whole world. We also know what the world puts forth as “love” is a sad substitute, and often even a justification for hate.

When we know him personally, for who he truly has revealed himself to be, we are set free to live in faith, hope, and love. But when we look around, it is painfully clear most do not see this reality. Most are still caught in the bondage of sin, where knowing God is the last thing desired. The manipulation, the lies, the endless violence and exploitation that plays out day in and day out in our world may drive us to ask the same question: “Lord, why have you shown yourself to me but not to everyone else? Wouldn’t it be better if the whole world could see you for who you are as well?” We want everyone to see what we are seeing, and to believe what we believe.

Have you ever wondered how people make it through the really tragic times of suffering without knowing Christ? Sometimes, we are shocked why everyone wouldn’t see the beauty of the gospel when so much is wrong in the world. But then we remember our own darkness that we were called out of. We know the Spirit must open their eyes like he did ours. So, we ask, “Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?”

We may also identify with the disciples who had gathered around the table with Jesus in this way. They thought they had signed up for something bigger than themselves. They thought they were going to be part of Jesus overthrowing Roman rule and setting Israel free. But, if Jesus was talking about leaving, then their dreams of being part of this historic movement were coming to an end.

Like every other human on the planet, we want to be part of something bigger than ourselves. We desire to be part of something that is significant. We don’t want to just live mediocre lives, we want significance. So, we search for significance in all kinds of ways that typically just leave us empty and hollow. But when we meet the Lord, we know we have encountered the most significant person and purpose in all human history. And it is an exciting privilege to be included in what he is doing. So when Jesus doesn’t move as fast as we would like, or worse, when he moves in a direction that seems like he is done, or at least done including us, we may feel like he is letting us down. The original disciples must have been feeling much the same way when Jesus told them he was going away.

Thankfully, Jesus does answer our question. And he does so in a way to remind us of a much bigger picture. Like the disciples around the table with Jesus, what they were excited about fell short of what Jesus was actually doing. How often do we think that we have now finally arrived at something really significant? We may think, “now, I’m part of something that will give my life meaning, something that others will have to take note of.” Maybe it’s landing that job you have dreamed of your whole life. Or, maybe it’s finally having a family of your own, or attaining a level of independence that was once beyond your reach. It can be any number of things we see as giving us significance. And they may be very good things, or it could even be something not so good. But, whatever level of significance we rise to, it doesn’t take long to realize we still have a desire for more. Deep down we know we are made for more. Our souls continue to long for an elusive significance we seem unable to give ourselves. Jesus’ response to Judas may be a good reminder for us as well.

Jesus responds with a picture of his relationship of belonging to the Father. A relationship of obedience grounded in love and not duty. Then he goes on to say that this is the relationship the Father wants to share with the whole world. The disciples wanted Jesus to give Israel a place in the world. But Jesus was up to something far greater. He is giving the world a place in Israel, a place in himself as the Son of God who is in relationship with Father and Spirit.

The disciples may have felt their significance was at risk, but in truth they were settling for far less than what Jesus had in mind. Often, we do the same. We see Jesus as a way to fulfill our dreams and goals and miss the fact the Jesus is our dream and goal. We overlook the relationship Jesus brings us into and then set our sights far short of the goal. In knowing Jesus and his Father by the Spirit, we will find a significance that we cannot give ourselves. It is a significance, a relationship of love, that is to be received as a gift of grace. Only, it is so wonderful, so beautiful, that we find it hard to believe and difficult to grasp.

Jesus’ departure is a gift that provides the means of growing into and receiving more of the relationship he has brought us into. Jesus’ leaving is his way of being more fully with us. Jesus locates this gift as the gift of the Holy Spirit.

“All this I have spoken while still with you. But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.” (John 14:25-26 NRSV)

Notice the Holy Spirit is not bringing something new or different than what Jesus has already given. Jesus is the Word of God already spoken to us. But the Spirit will continue to teach us, to help us unpack the significance of who this Word, Jesus, is to us and who we are in relationship to him. The Spirit not only teaches, but also reminds us of what Jesus has already said. The picture here is a significance we never move from. The Spirit aims to move us deeper into this truth, but he is not moving beyond it, as if there was something more that Jesus held back. Sometimes we may be tempted to think of Jesus in this way.

We may think to ourselves that now that we know who Jesus is, we can move on to deeper waters. Now, perhaps that we got our theology right, we can get to the real business of doing ministry, doing something significant with our lives. But when we think like that, we are revealing that we don’t fully know who Jesus is. By God’s grace, the Holy Spirit is sent to help us know him more. We will discover that there is nothing more to move on to, nothing more significant than what we have in Christ. Note that I did not say that we have nothing more significant than what we already experience. Our experience of Christ has a lot of room for growth, in this life and in the next, and we will find it the most significant thing in the universe! The Son’s relationship with his Father is the most significant and eternal relationship there is, and we are invited to participate in that relationship.

In that relationship we will find that our longing has been answered, fully satisfied in Jesus. The striving for significance will cease. In light of the great significance our inclusion in the Trinity gives us, we can trust that what the Spirit is doing in our present lives is of great value and significance. Even the mundane is majestic.

On top of this, Jesus also shares with us his peace.

“Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid. You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I. I have told you now before it happens, so that when it does happen you will believe.” (John 14:27-29 NRSV)

Jesus contrasted this peace with the peace the world offers. The best the world has to offer is a “cease-fire” or temporary peace of conflict avoidance. But Jesus gives us a peace that continues even in the middle of our conflict and chaos. The significance we gain in belonging to Jesus is one that is accompanied with peace, because nothing will ever separate us from the Father.

Jesus knows the disciples are discouraged and afraid because he had told them he was going away and coming back. He seems to indicate that their fear and discouragement has something to do with their love for him. If they loved him, Jesus says, they would be glad that he is returning to the Father. It appears that the love the disciples have for Jesus is a possessive love. They can’t think of him going away as a good thing because they want to keep him around for their own purposes. But love for Jesus means we trust him in what he tells us. If he needs to go away, we can even be glad about it, even if we don’t fully understand why, because we know in the end it will be for our good. This doesn’t mean we are not sad at his departure, but it is a sadness that is fitting to the undergirding peace and joy that comes in trusting in Jesus as Lord and Savior. Jesus and his Father don’t do anything to our harm.

To love Jesus and his Father is a peace and freedom on a scale the world can never offer. And even this love is a gift of God’s grace. And notice how Jesus ends this passage. He is telling the disciples that he is leaving for a good purpose. He intends to build their faith. How often do we hold back telling someone some news they don’t want to hear, but need to hear for their own good, simply because we do not want to upset them or hurt their feelings? Thankfully, our Lord loves us enough to upset our feelings, which are fleeting, in order to build our faith in that which is permanent. Jesus is committed to bringing us into his significant peace with his Father, that he shares with us by the Spirit.

Resurrection Fish Fry w/ Jeff McSwain W4

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May 22 – 6th Sunday of Easter
John 14:23-29 “Peace Be With You”

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Program Transcript


Resurrection Fish Fry w/ Jeff McSwain W4

Anthony: John 14:23 – 29 is our next passage from the lectionary. It’s for the 6th Sunday of Easter, May the 22nd. And it reads:

Jesus answered him, “Those who love me will keep my word, and my Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. 24 Whoever does not love me does not keep my words; and the word that you hear is not mine, but is from the Father who sent me. 25 “I have said these things to you while I am still with you. 26 But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you everything, and remind you of all that I have said to you. 27 Peace I leave with you; my peace I give to you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled, and do not let them be afraid. 28 You heard me say to you, ‘I am going away, and I am coming to you.’ If you loved me, you would rejoice that I am going to the Father, because the Father is greater than I. 29 And now I have told you this before it occurs, so that when it does occur, you may believe. [NRSV]

 

And Jesus said that those who love him will keep his word. Okay. But on this side of the veil, new heaven, a new earth, all of us are falling short at keeping his word fully, subjectively, based on the way we see it. Though, you’ve already addressed that we are living to the Lord faithfully on the green side.

When we look at the depths of who we are, sometimes it feels like we’re not very pious. Paul talked about this thing that’s raging within him, that which he wants to do, he doesn’t do. And that, which he doesn’t want to do, he does. So what else is there to say about this, as we think through this particular passage?

Jeff: First of all, that Roman 7 passage is key. I do as the red self what I, as the green self, do not want to do. It’s the single subject there. You can’t lose the single subject of the two selves. My true self doesn’t need to repent, but my false self can’t repent. So, who has to repent? Jeff.

That’s the basic, bottom line. You can’t let the two selves fall apart into abstractions. They’re always considered within the one self, the one person of the two selves, the two selves of the one person.

And I think that Jesus is saying in these passages and John, like I said, is so nuanced here, but this is throughout scripture. Whoever does not love me does not obey my commandments. That’s exactly what we’ve been saying. Flesh gives birth to flesh. Flesh doesn’t love God. My red self doesn’t love God. My red self actually hates God. My red self is evil. My red self is the antichrist. So of course, that’s the case: whoever does not love me does not keep my commandments.

Whoever loves me, keeps my commandments. In other words, that’s the true self that we have. That is the person who obeys because Christ is obeying for us and therefore, whatever Christ is doing for us, we are doing with him. It’s not a hypothetical. It’s not a de jure, de facto. It’s not an objective that needs a subjective.

It’s not, let’s add the Spirit to it to make it actual. No, it’s all happening. It’s all happening in Jesus Christ. It’s all happening in ourselves as united with Jesus Christ. Those two things are going on. So what Jesus said there is imminently the case. What that means is when we go to war against somebody, we are killing our friends.

We are killing our friends. We are therefore also killing ourselves because to do violence against the economy of Jesus Christ in his vicarious humanity, is not just hurting Christ or breaking his laws. Because we are so intimately involved, we’re actually doing violence to our very self. We wouldn’t be able to say we were doing violence to ourself unless we were already intimately involved.

But because we’re so woven into it, and as Jillian of Norwich says, because we’re so knit in this knot with Christ, that anything we do with him is from him sourced in the vine, through the branches. Anything we do against him is the branches that are cut off and burned and thrown into the fire and destroyed. But Jesus Christ comprehends all of those aspects in his one person.

So, to go to war and to kill other people out of an “us versus them” mentality is to hurt Jesus Christ but is to hurt ourselves and is to kill our friends. If we started thinking of it in that direction, what it means to live in this world—and of course, Christ said, you’re gonna hear wars and rumors of war for a while. It’s gonna happen.

In this world, you will have tribulation, but be of good cheer, be encouraged for, I have overcome the world. [John 16:33]

Past tense. These two things have already been settled. They were settled in Genesis. They were revealed in Jesus Christ and now they’re being played out on the world stage and in the world stage of my home at 309.

But these things are being played out in such a way that we have a better framework to address just how bad sin and evil are. And also, to be able to address the brokenness of those who have been subjected by other people’s antichrist agency to lives of pain and oppression.

Anthony: Yeah, as you’re saying this, Jeff, we’re talking about war and rumor of war. And of course, right now, as we record this, there’s a war going on. And you’ve addressed this, that in war, nobody wins. Harm is done to the victim and the victimizer because we’re doing damage to ourselves.

So, what does that say about the peace that Jesus talks about in this pericope? He says he gives us his peace. What do we make of it? When it doesn’t look anything like peace right now, what do we do with it?

Jeff: Yeah. And when you think about just war doctrine, is there such a thing? You have to ask that question? Is there a way to get to the peace that is the reality? Again, we start with the fact that everybody knows God in Jesus Christ. And nobody knows God in the flesh. No one knows God.

And Jeremiah 31 points to the fact that they will all know me because the reality will be made manifest. They all know him in Jeremiah 31. They will all know him because they do all know him, but nobody knows the Father except the Son. Nobody knows the Son except the Father.

This is the baseline. And therefore, as Christ shares his knowledge of the Father with us, and we also with each other are sharing that knowledge. We can, as believers recognize that there is peace in that God is keeping truth with humanity. Humanity is keeping in the Son and the Son as humanity is keeping truth with the Father, there is Shalom.

There is peace and there is truth. There is truth and there’s grace and truth there. It’s not that Moses brought truth, and then Jesus brought grace. Moses brought the law, grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. That’s the mutual relationship of knowing one another in Christ, the mutual representation. The mutuality of loving one another in Christ and the mutuality of peace with one another are all rooted in the fact of what is real.

We live in a world where no matter how unreal, anti-real, and tragically manifest the events are, that we can live in the knowledge that it has not displaced or replaced the reality. The kingdom of God is still a dimension that’s in us and with us and that we are in. And that Hebraic understanding of holistic worldview has to be maintained in order to recognize that these are dimensions, as contrary as they are to one another and as painful as they are, they are dimensions.

And there is a reality, a winner in Jesus Christ as savior and Lord of all, the one who is peace personified.

Anthony: Yes, that’s good. Thank you for that.


Small Group Discussion Questions

From Speaking of Life

  • Can you think of a time that you settled for less?
  • What examples can you share of settling for less in a relationship?
  • How did hearing that Jesus never settles for anything less in his relationship with us strike you?

From the Sermon

  • Do you ever ask the question that Judas asked, “Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?” Why do you think we ask this question?
  • The sermon said we often try to find significance in many different ways that only leave us empty and hollow. Can you think of ways we seek significance in the wrong places?
  • Can you think of times where you felt significant in your walk with Christ but then circumstances changed that threatened your significance? What can these experiences tell us about where we are looking for significance and importance?
  • Jesus had to lead the disciples to see that what he was doing was even bigger than they had imagined. Can you relate experiences in your walk with Jesus that he led you to see a bigger picture of what he was doing than what you were originally thinking? How do these experiences affect our trust in Jesus?
  • The sermon stated that Jesus’ relationship with his Father is the most significant and eternal relationship there is, and we are invited to participate in that relationship. Are there times when you think knowing Jesus and his Father is not enough? Are you tempted at times to think there must be something more significant than just knowing the Son and his Father by the Spirit?
  • Contrast the peace Jesus gives us with the peace offered by the world! What are some differences?
  • Can you think of times or examples that kept you or someone from sharing something important with another to keep from hurting their feelings? Can you think of some examples in the Gospels where Jesus hurt someone’s feelings because they needed to hear something important? What do these examples tell us about Jesus’ love for others?

Sermon for May 29, 2022 – Seventh Sunday of Easter

Speaking Of Life 4027 | Living Water

Have you ever felt empty inside? Have you ever felt like life is one problem after another? Even when we feel like we have everything that we need, nothing can satisfy the void that only Jesus can fill. He is the true Living Water that even when we are in our deepest darkest moments in the wilderness, he refreshes our soul and keeps us whole in his loving embrace.

Program Transcript


Speaking Of Life 4027 | Living Water
Jeff Broadnax

A commonly held assumption for treating people suffering from heat exhaustion is to just give them more water. The problem is that the person who is suffering could drink a gallon of water and still not get better. What is really happening here is that the person’s body is lacking something vital. They have depleted the salts in their body to a point that no amount of water will fix. Once they get a sports drink or two in their system to replenish the electrolytes, they will tend to perk up. The solution is to get the right substance in them.

In life, there exists commonly held beliefs about vital things we humans feel are missing to provide true fulfillment in our lives. We know that something just isn’t right and so we attempt to fill our longings with a better job, more money, a new romantic relationship, or acquiring fame. But history has shown us again and again how people who often appear to have it all have found out that they were still missing something.

The answer to the human dilemma is found in an interesting place in the Bible. In the book of Revelation, John gives us a picture of heavenly hope. He quotes Jesus saying:

“Come!” And let the one who hears say, “Come!” Let the one who is thirsty come; and let the one who wishes take the free gift of the water of life.
Revelation 22:17

This passage, reminds me of the story where Jesus encountered the woman at the well. Jesus tells the woman that whoever drinks the water that he is offering will never thirst again. Not only that, but once ingested, this living water will become a spring of water welling up to eternal life.

Jesus describes Himself as the living water. He is the key ingredient; He alone gives life. When we acknowledge Christ as our life, our thirst is satisfied. We no longer need to ask the question about what will satisfy us and what will make us whole. We are satisfied and made whole in Him.

In our passage from Revelation, Jesus reassures us that he possesses all that we need to experience a full and satisfying life. In Him, we have been raised to new life. A life without end. Our thirst is quenched.

Having things in our life like money, relationships, respect, and admiration can all enrich our lives. But those things, in and of themselves will never fill the empty space that only Christ can occupy.  

Does your life feel exhausting? Do you feel like your life is one big attempt at filling something deep inside you that is missing? Just know that Jesus is the answer. He offers you his living water. He offers you nothing less than Himself. He is our life. It’s time to satisfy that thirst once and for all with the only thing designed to make you whole – Jesus Christ.

I’m Jeff Broadnax, Speaking of Life.

Psalm 97:1-12 • Acts 16:26-34 • Revelation 22:12-14, 16-17, 20-21 • John 17:20-26

This week’s theme is our response to seeing the salvation, goodness and love of God in our lives. In the call to worship Psalm, the psalmist tells us that because the Lord reigns, the whole earth should be glad. In Acts 16 we see the jailer who was overseeing Paul and Silas rejoicing because of his new faith in Christ. In John, we see Jesus praying that an unbelieving world will come to know that he loves them. And in Revelation it is promised that all who come to God will be filled with the fullness of life.

The Impassioned Prayer of Christ

John 17:20-26

Have you ever overheard someone praying for you? Whether it was a parent, a friend, or someone from church, it’s humbling to know what that person wants God to do in your life and what desires they are hoping God fulfills for you.

This prayer that Jesus is praying is part of an on-going prayer that starts at the beginning of chapter 17. Let’s keep in mind that Jesus is not giving a sermon here or even a to-do list for the church, as there was no church at that time. This is a prayer. And it is a prayer that allows the disciples to peek behind the curtain into the relationship between Father and Son. This allows the disciples to see the kind of things that the Trinity feels for the disciples and what their intentions are for them. And for us as well.

Let’s take a closer look at the impassioned prayer that Jesus prays for his disciples. A prayer that he prays within earshot of them. In the first few verses he prays for unity. After that, Jesus prays that they would see his glory, and lastly, he will pray about their intimacy with the Trinity.

“My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one—I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.” (John 17:20-23)

In this first section, we see Jesus not only praying for his disciples, but for us and for all those who will come after us. His prayer is for unity in the body of Christ. That just as he and the Father are one, we would be one with each other.

Jesus prays that we would be unified in a such a way that at last the whole world will know that Jesus is Lord. And that would be accomplished by the way that we are in union with each other. Is the fact that there are literally thousands of denominations in the Christian church an indictment against us for our lack of unity? Perhaps, if we focus on the differences. But what if we focus on our agreement in Jesus? Isn’t this what Jesus is praying for – our unity as brothers and sisters in Christ? Unfortunately, we do focus on so much other than our unity.

The body of Christ is often guilty of insisting that if you are a Christian, you will stop doing certain things. That is true. We stop hating other people, we stop worshipping idols. But some take this idea and turn it into legalistic specifics, that by your outward conformity to their standards you will either be qualified or disqualified from their fellowship. But that is not unity, that is uniformity. It’s vital to understand we don’t all have the same interpretations, or maturity in the Lord, or have the same giftings or callings.

Ultimately, uniformity trespasses over the relationship that each of us uniquely has with our Savior and Lord. It holds us to a standard that our Lord has not asked of us.

The church has never been, nor will ever be in complete agreement on this side of heaven. What Christ desires and prays for us is that we would be one in love. We are to be perfected in love, and that through this love a lost world will see Christ.

 “Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world.” (John 17:24)

In this verse we see Jesus praying that the disciples would be where he is and that they would see his glory. The same glory that Jesus had with the Father because of the love that the Father had for him. So, what exactly is glory? It seems to be one of those mysterious religious words that gets thrown around in sermons and worship songs.

In this passage, the Greek word for glory is doxa. This has to do with ascribing worth and value to something. It is giving an accurate assessment of an object or person. In this instance, it is to recognize, value and to have an accurate assessment of God’s character and nature. It is being in agreement with who, and how God is.

Have you ever been told something negative about someone you haven’t met? Did it color your opinion of them even before you met them? This happens often. Then when you finally meet that person, you found out that many, or most of those negative things you were told about them were not true.

Of utmost importance to God is that we have an accurate representation of him. That as we see him for all that he is, we couldn’t help but honor, esteem and respect him and his ways. And this is the God we see in Jesus. And in having seen love itself in personal form how can you not love in return? This is giving glory to God.

When we see Jesus, we have seen the Father. In fact, that is where our view of God needs to start – not from the Old Testament, but from the life of Christ. For no one has seen the Father except the Son. (John 6:46)

Jesus desires his disciples – which includes you and me – to see his glory and to be in agreement with God’s character and nature as seen in Christ Jesus. Also, to acknowledge his sovereign right to his creation. To entrust ourselves to him and to the life he desires to live in and through us.

“Righteous Father, though the world does not know you, I know you, and they know that you have sent me. I have made you known to them, and will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them and that I myself may be in them.” (John 17:25-26)

In the last part of this impassioned prayer of Christ, Jesus affirms that he has made known the Father to his disciples. His desire was that they would share in the love relationship that exists within the Trinity.

Before the very foundation of the world, before humanity was even a gleam in the Father’s eyes, this relationship of unity, glory, and intimacy existed. This greatest of all loves is the foundation upon which creation itself exists and is held together. God is not looking for automatons to blindly follow orders though coercion and ultimatums; he woos our hearts to participate in what has always been on his heart since the beginning of time. His desire is to draw us into that intimacy.

Through the Holy Spirit, we experience an intimacy that transcends all of our human relationships. It is an inseparable relationship where the Spirit of Christ has taken up residence and promises to never leave us. There will never be a moment when the Spirit of God is not present in your life. God has made a way for us that we would never be without him.

When we are captivated by our intimate union with God, it becomes easier to love our brothers and sisters in the faith. And as we do, the lesser things of this life begin to fall away. It is here where we truly begin to glorify God in our practice of unity. And in turn, an unbelieving world can start believing in a God worthy of praise and worship.

In Hebrews 7:25 we are reminded that, “He always lives to intercede for them.” Could it be that Christ is still praying his impassioned prayer over us? That he is still praying that the church may be one, that we would see and share in his glory and to participate in the intimacy with Father, Son, and Spirit? Perhaps we should join him in praying for these things as well.

Resurrection Fish Fry w/ Jeff McSwain W5

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May 29 – 7th Sunday of Easter
John 17:20-26 “We Are One”

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Program Transcript


Resurrection Fish Fry w/ Jeff McSwain W5

Anthony: We’re in the home stretch, man! One last pericope is John 17:20 – 26. It is the Revised Common Lectionary passage for the 7th Sunday of Easter, May the 29th. And it reads:

“I ask not only on behalf of these, but also on behalf of those who will believe in me through their word, 21 that they may all be one. As you, Father, are in me and I am in you, may they also be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22 The glory that you have given me I have given them, so that they may be one, as we are one, 23 I in them and you in me, that they may become completely one, so that the world may know that you have sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me. 24 Father, I desire that those also, whom you have given me, may be with me where I am, to see my glory, which you have given me because you loved me before the foundation of the world. 25 “Righteous Father, the world does not know you, but I know you; and these know that you have sent me. 26 I made your name known to them, and I will make it known, so that the love with which you have loved me may be in them, and I in them.” [NRSV]

Whew! That’s some theological density there. So let me give you just a chance to rift. What is the Lord revealing in and through this passage?

Jeff: First of all, what does he say there? The world does not love me. The world does not know me. The world does not. We recognize that John’s use of the word “world” is a world in conflict. He’s not talking about the new heavens and the new earth or the original heavens and earth.

He’s talking about the reversal of, or the corrupted nature of the way things are, the world. And there’s beauty in that to me in the sense that, God so loved the world. In other words, even if the world can’t love God, the flesh can’t give birth to [ Spirit], the worldliness, the sordidness of our flesh can’t love God, God loves us in the flesh. He doesn’t just love our true selves. He loves us.

He loves us warts and all, and he’s embraced us at our very worst. And that’s why I love that leper story in Mark 1, (we won’t go into it) Jesus embraces the leper at his very worst. He doesn’t heal him first and then say, come give me a hug! He embraces him, touches him before he heals him.

God so loved the world. That is the same love that the Father has for the Son that he has for each one of us who are adopted in the Son (ergo, every human being as Ephesians 1 says, anybody who’s adopted in the Son—and that would be all, according to my interpretation of Ephesians 1:1-10—has been a child of God from all eternity.)

And I think that there’s a matter of revelation now to be had—it doesn’t look like that—but these 12 apostles are the ones in the room and at this time, they represent not only Israel in the 12 tribes in a representative fashion, but they really represent humanity.

And the church also should be a provisional representation of all human beings sanctified in Christ. They are the ones that want to follow the head of the whole human race, and therefore have been called the body of Christ in scripture. But that doesn’t mean that the body of Christ is any different ontologically than every other human being outside the so-called walls of the church. We start with the fact that we are all included in Jesus Christ, by creation and redemption, and he is the head of the human race.

And our desire then would be to live in tangible expression of that. And that to live as the body of Christ, as Israel was called to do, as we are called to do. Not in a supersessionist way as the church, but in a way that the church and Israel are meant to bear witness, bear witness in a way that bears relative witness to the truth for all humanity.

And so, I just think that when it comes to this idea of knowing nobody knows the Son, except the Father, nobody knows the Father, except the Son that we have to recognize that we’re all inside of that by virtue of the vicarious humanity of Christ. And that in any place in our life where we give testimony to the fact that I really began to know God or that’s when I knew God, we can recognize that not only has God known us, but we’ve known God as well, if we take the vicarious humanity of Christ seriously.

And the reason that those “born from above moments” are so powerful and so visceral is because they’re rooted in reality, not because they’re creating the reality. And that’s why I’ve always been an evangelist at heart, I love to preach the gospel because I love to see those moments of discovery and recognition that are truly transformative.

And that will really allow us to be able to rest in the fact that yes, we know God first and foremost, because Jesus Christ knows God. And he shares that with us in a way that we can play second fiddle. And that second fiddle is so much better than trying to get our own primary fiddle going.

Anthony: Man. I so desperately want my agency sometimes, but you’re right. The second fiddle, it’s the chair to be in, brother.

You and Susan are dear friends. I love you. I’m so grateful for our friendship. And I’m grateful for the ways that you have been a faithful expression of who Christ is in this city that we get to share now in Durham, North Carolina. So, thank you for being a part of the podcast.

Jeff: I’m so happy you’re here.

Anthony: Yeah, man. We’re just getting started, but you are a blessing. You’re a beloved child of God. And thank you for being a part of this podcast. As is our tradition, we love to close with the word of prayer. Would you be willing to pray over our listening audience?

Jeff: Absolutely.

Lord, I thank you for your love for us. Let it penetrate through our hearts of stone that we might have a created and redeemed heart that you’ve given us towards you. And that therefore, we might not define ourselves by what we think about ourselves and what the world thinks about us, but that we could rest in the love that you have, and that rest would therefore be manifest as peace to others around us and to the whole world.

And right now, during this time, we ask for a secession of conflict in Ukraine. And we ask for your blessing over all who are involved and who are suffering the deep collateral damage and the death and destruction that this conflict is brought on.

Not that this is the only conflict or that this should get headlines above others. There’s so many around the world that we know and so many that we don’t know that are happening within our own homes. These conflicts that are not of your peace, but Lord, please pour out your peace and abundance that we might be able to participate with you to be part more of the solution instead of part of the problem, that we might live in this Spirit and not in the flesh.

And that we might anticipate that great day, that day where there’ll be full clarity, where the flesh will go one way and the Spirit in Christ, Lord, we’ll be able to go with you in another, that we might live in the truth of who we are then, that we might live in the truth of we are now. And that what is true then, and what has always been true will be manifest here in this world, in this moment. I thank you for Anthony, for this podcast, and we give this all to you in the name of Jesus. Amen.


Small Group Discussion Questions

Discussion Questions:

  • How does it feel when you hear someone praying for you? How has that affected your relationship with them?
  • What are some ways that the church can practice unity? What would a unified church look like in your own congregation?
  • What does glory mean to you? And how do we give glory to God?
  • How do we recognize our intimacy with God?
  • Hebrews 7:25 says that Christ ever lives to make intercession for us. What do you think he is praying over us?