Wake Up, Sleeper! w/ Marty Folsom W4
Anthony: Well, our final passage of the month is Romans 8:6-11. It’s from the Common English Bible. It is the Revised Common Lectionary passage for the fifth Sunday of Easter Prep (Lent) on March the 26th.
Marty, would you read it for us please?
Marty:
6The attitude that comes from selfishness leads to death, but the attitude that comes from the Spirit leads to life and peace. 7 So the attitude that comes from selfishness is hostile to God. It doesn’t submit to God’s Law, because it can’t. 8 People who are self-centered aren’t able to please God. 9 But you aren’t self-centered. Instead you are in the Spirit, if in fact God’s Spirit lives in you. If anyone doesn’t have the Spirit of Christ, they don’t belong to him. 10 If Christ is in you, the Spirit is your life because of God’s righteousness, but the body is dead because of sin. 11 If the Spirit of the one who raised Jesus from the dead lives in you, the one who raised Christ from the dead will give life to your human bodies also, through his Spirit that lives in you.
Anthony: God is triune and other-centered. The Father is for the Son. The Son is for the Spirit. The Spirit’s for the Father. And so, it goes.
And yet this pericope points to how destructive selfishness and self-centeredness is in our walk with God. But Marty, anywhere you look, you see selfishness, selfishness everywhere. Sometimes even in our churches, we’ll see it. So, during this season of preparation for Easter, many Christians see it as a time of a spiritual reflection.
What would you say to us about what is being revealed in this passage?
Marty: So, a couple things about Lent just to throw in here. We often think of Lent as a time to get rid of those things, the selfishness, the attitudes and all that. And so, we focus on getting rid of those things.
I like to think of Lent as like a honeymoon. Now, when people go on a honeymoon, there’s all kinds of things they leave behind, but they don’t think about what they’ve left behind. They think about the one who they get to be with. And the whole nature of that is to have a time of serving, caring, learning to integrate our life with the other, to have this new life that’s in a sense determined by a lifestyle of love.
And so, do you leave things behind? Do you change when you come back because of it? I hope that the time dedicated to loving the other becomes so transformative that there are things that naturally are left behind because they no longer serve the nature of what love looks like in this relationship.
So, if we think of Lent as a season of focus, that prayer and fasting is not a getting rid of. It’s the attentive love of the person of Christ who has come into the world. And the anticipation that the celebration of Easter is going to be the fullness of the covenant life that we are going to be living into, and that we are reminding ourself of who is most important and how that affects us.
Then the nature of destructive selfishness and self-centeredness is already washed away because we’re not focusing on trying to get rid of our self-centeredness, which becomes its own kind of moral failure. If we’re focusing on trying to get rid of something bad in ourself, then we’re focusing on ourself and that is a moral problem because we’re focused on ourselves.
So, the whole idea of the world that we live in is that, as you have said, it is a culture of individualism. Individualism is what everybody’s focused on. How do I be happy in the world? And from that, we want to defend our individual rights. Rights are all about the individual looking out for themself.
If we thought out of responsibility, responsibility is what do I owe others? And if we were always asking, what do I owe to others in love, then we wouldn’t even have to talk about rights because others would also be looking out for us by virtue of what it is that for them to be responsible or loving to us.
But because we focus on rights, then everything becomes about me protecting my way of being. And that just feeds the self-centeredness. We want to own more, consume more. Everything just feeds into this problem of self-focusedness. And so, if we recognize that the nature of the gospel that is being put out here is to recognize all of that stuff just leads to separation from others from God.
And so there is no peace there. The law of God is ultimately the law of love. But if the law is, how do I get more? How do I use the economy, the politics, the whatever, to get more for myself? Then we will be enslaved to that. And so, the language of selfishness and death and slavery and fear is all bound together.
The alternative to that then is that the God who looks at us with love, who comes to us in love, pours his Spirit into us. And so Lent is this openness to the Spirit so that we’ll be open to the life of love. And there is a reprioritizing because the Spirit focuses us on the one who has loved us, what it means to know about the meaning of the cross, that it removes all of that need for making our own way in the world, to see all as gift.
And so, if our season of Lent is to ask the question, how do I more focus the value of who Jesus is? And to say Spirit, if you’re going to show me what it is that’s selfish in myself, show me the flip side even more as the enduring sense of what is that God has given me and continues to give me every day as the gift from which I would live.
And therefore, to say, when we get the gift, then we have the way of gratitude and thankfulness. If we thought of Lent as more about gratitude and thankfulness that the Spirit awakens in us, there would be a sense in really a living according to the will of God. What is the will of God?
“Rejoice always, pray without ceasing, in everything give thanks, for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.” [1 Thessalonians 5:16-18] That’s Lent.
Anthony: Yeah. It reminds me of what Eugene Peterson said, that Christian discipleship is focusing more and more on Christ’s righteousness and less and less on our own.
Yes. And that’s where you’re flipping Lent on its head. And I think there’s something to that. It’s like Peter keeping his eyes fixed on Jesus walking on water, but as soon as he focused on himself, that’s when he ran into trouble. So, I think there’s a lot of truth to what you’re saying.
You know, the epistle writer said that if anyone doesn’t have the Spirit of Christ, they don’t belong to Christ. How does someone know if they have the Spirit of Christ? And additionally, does this mean, Marty, non-believers don’t belong to Christ?
Marty: Right. It’s a very interesting passage and it’s very easy to read it wrongly.
So, one of the things about being alive as a human being is that the God that made you, sustained you by his Spirit. So to say, you wouldn’t be alive, were it not for the Spirit sustaining you. The question, do we live as though that is true?
Do human beings generally know that the Spirit of Christ is the one who gives them that which Karl Barth says is the distinctive what it means to be human rather than animal, and that is that we have the Spirit who gives us this connection, this being with the God who has loved us. Do we acknowledge that? Well, obviously much of humanity does not.
So, when we say, how does someone know they have the Spirit of Christ? We never possess the Spirit of Christ. Rather, when we are aligned with or attuned to the reality of the Spirit, our life will look like the fruit of the Spirit. When the Spirit is sustaining our very life and breath and being, we can live in denial of that. And then all of the shadow darkness that we’ve talked about, all that comes into play. The Spirit is still the one who gives us life, but we’re living our life as though that’s not real. So, we can call that living in unreality, living in denial of the Spirit of Christ.
And so, when we go on then and talk about: do they belong to Christ if they’re in that place? To say, we cannot use the word belong in a way that is a possession as though somebody owns something. But to say that we steal ourself, we have stolen ourself from the one who owns us. We are not rejected by the Spirit. We are not rejected by Christ. We have simply stolen ourself and are living a lie that we are separated.
And so, to say that we don’t belong to or that this person doesn’t belong to Christ, is to say the same way a child may say I don’t belong to that family anymore. Well, the fact of the matter is that mother, that father gave them birth and so to say, the reality is that they do belong in the truest physical sense. They are saying, I am choosing not to identify myself as being connected to those people.
And so, they’re rejecting in a sense, something that you would say cannot reject the truest reality of it, though their personal experience through their individual judgment is that they don’t belong. So, the human being who rejects the love of God, who rejects the Spirit at work in them, will live as though the Spirit is not giving them life and breath.
But that is not the deepest reality, though, as JB Torrance would say, that is their experience of it. And therefore, the blessings of what it means to live from the life of love, they will be those who walk in darkness. They will be those who will stumble. They will be those who do not receive the benefits of having been loved, being able to love.
So, the word belonging there has to be seen in a deeper sense. There is nothing that we can do, neither height nor depth, angels nor principalities. Nothing can separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus, our Lord. And the Spirit is the one who gives us the very breath and life to bring the work of Christ to us.
And that amazing passage in Romans in 11 where he has condemned all under sin, that he may show mercy to all. That he may show mercy to all means that in the eyes of the God who has given all for all people he will say, this one belongs to me also, even though he doesn’t know all have sinned, all could be judged, but I have shown mercy to all, they all belong to me.
Not all have awakened to that. And so insofar as someone lives as a quote unquote non-believer, they’re living incongruent with reality. They’re not doing the good scientific work of investigating what is really real. Who am I really? What is this God all about who I’ve heard because I’ve heard some crazy things and there are a lot of crazy things people say about what it means to be a Christian and who the Christian God is?
But the Spirit is always at work in awakening us, inviting us, unveiling our eyes, waking us from the sleep so that we will experience the love of God and the truth of what this is saying is the Spirit does live in us and the Spirit has been given to us 100% gift. There’s nothing we could do to earn it, no condition that we could meet that would make the Spirit come to us.
The question of our allowing the reality to shine through instead of hiding in the ways that we think we can manage our world if we maintain a kind of power that deceives us in the same way that Adam and Eve were deceived. And I say the day they ate that apple, it was kind of like going from the absolute delight of a child to becoming a teenager who becomes independent and says, I’m going to do it my way. I don’t care what you have to say. The Adam and Eve move was in a world of independence, that is the problem.
When the Spirit moves, a third thing happens. And that’s what I call the life of interdependence. And that’s what you hope to have with your adult children. You are a person. I am a person. We belong to one another, and we will love each other with the distinctions of who we are, but also recognize that we belong together.
People who are non-believers are those who are still part of the family, but they’re living in their teenage mentality. And there are a lot of 70, 80-year-olds who still live with a teenage mentality. Maybe it’s even childish. I’ll do it myself. And so, are they loved by Christ? Yes. Does the Spirit give them life and breath? Yes. Do they know that that is true? Nope. They’re living in denial of that. So, we can never be held back from saying to any person, I have no doubt that you are loved by God, sustained by his Spirit, whether you know it or not.
I can preach that to you as the gospel because I know the God who is there. Your choices are going to live in the light of that. And whatever you do, you will never be outside of God’s love.
Anthony: Mm. Hallelujah. Praise God. And therefore, we can say, wake up sleeper and experience true reality that you are beloved of God. As I heard Pastor Brian Zahn once say, salvation is best understood as belonging. We belong to God, and you, Marty, belong to God. You are beloved in his sight.
And this is fun. It what a great conversation. It’s such a joy to do this with you. And I hope you’ll come back sometime, and maybe we’ll have you sing one of your songs that I heard you reference earlier in the podcast.
But I also want to take this moment to thank a couple of people who really make this podcast go: Ruel Enerio, who is our producer, and also Elizabeth Mullins, who does the transcription of the podcast. So, you can read what Marty said, word for word.
Marty, thanks for being a part of this. And as is our tradition on Gospel Reverb, we like to end with prayer. So, would you please pray for us, our listening audience?
Marty: I’d be delighted to.
Dear Abba, we do thank you this day that we get to celebrate your life that embraces our life. As we prepare for Lent, we recognize that the goal of Lent is to live within the embrace that you have for us in Jesus. We know that this is a time that we walk with you, a rugged road, a challenging road, but one that has purpose and meaning.
Help us to find our purpose and meaning in the love that you’ve poured out for us. And the grace that isn’t something separate from yourself. It is you looking us eye to eye. Help us to lift our eyes and our hearts to see your gaze into us. To know that we are loved by you and Holy Spirit, you who have been poured out into us.
We pray that as we listen to these gospel words that you would bring them to resonate in our being, that they would cause us to awaken a way that we have never had before, and that Lent would be all lived in the light of the dawning sun of the resurrection. That gives meaning and purpose of what it means to be fully alive.
Help us to live the fully-alive life, embraced by the one who we have on our lips as Abba, or dear Father, to know the companion of Jesus who goes with us, and that you, Holy Spirit, give us life and purpose and meaning and do your work in us. Do that, we pray, now and in this season of preparation. We pray all these things in your name, you who is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
Amen.